Low stake "pros" ???

[Riveredya]

Fuel for the fire: At 1/2NL I pull down $120 every 3-4 hours. At that rate I could see averaging $50k a year assuming for a couple of bad runs. That said I only play for 4-5 hours a week, one time a week and have a good paying job. If I were thinking at all that my Big Mac money was gonna go to some donk, maybe I would play different....

Yes I definitely think you could make a living playing low stakes poker for a living.

[sternroolz]

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Fuel for the fire: At 1/2NL I pull down $120 every 3-4 hours.

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Do you actually write down the reults of each of your sessions?

It doesn't sound like it. Every 3-4 hours? WTF?

[sanmarcosrun1]

Recreational players tend to not track results so I doubt some of the responses can be taking all that seriously.

In terms of the question of low stake pros I view it as possible but as everyone else has said it depends on how a person wants to live. The person would need to seriously track their results though before attempting it. The biggest mistake would be assuming you can make 50k a year off 3-4 hours a week of play. It takes alot of serious self motivation to play this as it requires the time to be put in every week just like any other job you have to show up to work. It all depends on living expenses the person needs just as others have said. Most difficult thing for a small stakes pro is not dipping into their bankroll for expenses. Always pay yourself an hourly wage than rest goes to your bankroll to allow yourself to move up.
Personally I think the best thing a low stakes player could do is have a part time job of any kind (maybe even dealing) and play part time. It gives you at least some sort of steady income and some part time jobs offer insurance which could help alot too. It helps if you have another working spouse as well so that you can be covered under their insurance. Different ways of going about it for different people but lots of ways to make it happen if and only if you are a winning player.

[AKQJ10]

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5-10 is a horrible action and is only spread in out of the way places that don't know any better.

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Seeing as how the Taj and Foxwoods are the two biggest 5/10 games on the East Coast, I wouldn't disagree. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The FW one has the distinction of a full kill which everyone seems to love. Otherwise, it'd be silly to spread 4/8 and 5/10 the same place. Supposedly they were going to change 5/10 to 6/12 with $2 chips but the 5/10 players loved their kill game.

Also, in AC even 2/4, 3/6, and probably 4/8 are played with substantial numbers of $5 chips, which I assume is the problem you're mentioning about $5/10.

[TS Clark]

I thought I would weigh in quickly on this interesting thread.

As a person who owns their own business and who employs people, I'd have some serious reservations about employing anyone with the kind of gap in work history that playing cards for a living would create (and I say this as a person who is an avid player). My issue would not only be because of the work history void, but also because I would have some real questions about whether a person who did this for a living would have authority and discipline issues that can cause problems in a "normal" work environment. So, for those of you who are considering playing for living at less than a high level, be aware of the potential issues your poker sabbatical might create for future employment situations.

The other issue for you to think about is that while many of you are young and don't have much in the way of life expenses, that will not likely always be the case. Many (if not most) of you will want to get married down the road. Many of you might want to have a family someday. Women who find low-stakes poker players a catch are probably few and far between. And, as the father of three, I can tell you that having a family is a pricy affair (wives and children can often be fussy about things like adequate shelter and health insurance).

I'd encourage anyone to live their dreams, but everyone should definitely employ some common-sense and exercise long-term thinking when making these sorts of decisions. Obviously, the truly talented can make a good living for themselves playing cards. But for the vast majority of players (even good ones), I think some definite consideration needs to be given to weighing the pros against the potential cons (both short- and long-term).

Good luck all.

[AKQJ10]

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My issue would not only be because of the work history void, but also because I would have some real questions about whether a person who did this for a living would have authority and discipline issues that can cause problems in a "normal" work environment.

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Just out of curiosity, would you feel the same way about a significant period of time spent freelancing in something "respectable" (say, Web development)?

I'm not trying to bias your answer. I can see reasons why you might see this as a major negative. I've learned that I in fact DON'T do well in environments where looking busy is more important than delivering results. This is why I've decided that freelancing + poker is where I need to be right now.

[TS Clark]

That's a thoughful question. And, after thinking about it for a moment, I'd have to say that I think I'd consider them differently. As a person who started their own company, I certainly respect the independent spirit of people who want to work for themselves. My concern would primarily be, as I said, that someone who chose to gamble for living might have a problem working collaboratively with others, being reliable when on another person's timeline, etc.. Working as a freelancer is a whole different ball of wax -- if anything, people who work for themselves might be MORE responsible, responsive, and deadline-driven than conventional employees. Their very livelihood (which depends on word-of-mouth and return gigs) depends on it. I have some real doubt if the same can be said for someone who plays cards for a living.

I'm fully willing to admit this is a somewhat biased viewpoint. However, I know I'm not the only person who'd have these kinds of concerns about someone who chose such a non-conventional "career".

[Riveredya]

Like I said I play 1x a week. My last 10 sessions I have won 9/10 times, which is definitely an uptick(I keep relative track of this). I don't write them down, but this is my best guestimate. When I play, I usually only play for 3-4 hours. I get to the casino at 6 and play til 9 or 10. That is about it. I could have won a little more or less, but that is pretty darn close when I factor in the losses. I don't care enough to figure it out exactly, but when I win I usually do an hourly calculation and find that I make b/w 25-50/hr after losses.

When I first started playing my wife was pretty skeptical, but since she doesn't see any withdraws from our accounts and I continue to bring back the bacon, she has become a believer. It is like I said though, I don't think I could do nearly as well if it was to put food on the table. The money doesn't mean much (I could lose every time and it wouldn't make a difference in my life), I just like the competition.

I play tight aggressive poker and find that people still call with weak hands. +EV is all I can say. Even at $2/5NL I find the same thing. People will gamble and I will bet with the best hands. Now I mix it up and show some off stuff so that they don't think I'm a rock, but it doesn't take much when you let people see your bluff hands like 7-9o. Overall I have definitely improved from absolute Donk to above average, but I read quite a bit about poker and have a decent ability to read people.

The whole point was that I am a decent player and based on my limited experience (4 years playing weekly for 3-4 hours a time), I believe it is POSSIBLE to make an above average living playing low stakes poker. It would take discipline and dedication, but there is no reason to believe that if you were a solid player, that you couldn't do it. That said, I wouldn't try unless I had a nest egg to fall back on.

[Riveredya]

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The biggest mistake would be assuming you can make 50k a year off 3-4 hours a week of play.

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I've made 1/10 of that, is what I'm claiming, which would give you 50k if you were doing that full time. I agree with your post completely. There is no way to make a living playing 3-4xweek.

[sanmarcosrun1]

Ok I undertsand what you are saying from the resume stand point but honestly resumes are somewhat overrated. The interview is the most important part of the hiring process.

As for the whole need money for a family in the future comments. The idea is to move up in stakes as you improve your game and make a living. Not trying to say it is easy to move up or anything but the point isnt to play 1/1NL or 5/10 limit or whatever forever. IMO if the pearson you want to marry doesnt love you because of the career choice you have then you should not want to marry her anyway. And how many women are honestly looking to be taken care of in this day and age? I have noticed a strong trend in both spouses working as this country is expensive. So insurance can be covered for a family by the spouse who is working in a field other than poker or whatever. A steady income can come in from playing poker. Your comment about providing shelter comes off as saying it cant. Is there really a difference in a low stakes NL player making 18 dollars an hour and that of an individual making the same amount doing something else? Not really the most important thing is to find a career that you love to do and dont hate going to work everyday. A loving family supports and understands that.