What % of major tourney players are backed by sheets/bax?

[MLG]

El D,
I would imagine that E-Dog backs (maybe backed--past tense) a higher % of any given field thatn sheets/bax.

I agree with a lot of the points being made in this thread that much of the pressure to cheat/play unethically comes not neccessarily from backing agreements themselves but rather from the clandestine environment they exist in. Also its important to note that selling % of yourself, rather than a typical backing deal can raise just as many, if not more ethical issues.

[cbloom]

I dunno why shaniac et.al. are talking about this hypothetically like it's never happened, it's well known that Men did this with a team for years.

Almost all of the old pros do this in a reduced form. They exchange portions with each other and then definitely soft play each other in the big fields and target the "fish". Whether that's just sensible or "team play" is in the eye of the beholder. You don't think all the Full Tilt team avoids each other until the final tables? It's hugely +EV for each of them for any of them to reach a final table.

[Yuv]

As cbloom said, I've heard these stories in my gossip trip to vegas, about Men's team. I've heard a more specific story, which was about Ivey's horses and the full tilt pros in the 50k WSOP HORSE tournament.

From what I've heard, Ivey and certain other key players for the team got the horses to dump chips at them in critical times, especially during the bubbles. Ivey was very shortstacked a number of times on the bubble, but recovered quickly.

Obviously I did not hear that directly from the player who complained, so I can't assure it happen.

[Danielih]

Sheets, the question is not necessarily whether you or your players cheat, but whether persons in the same or similar situations are likely to do so. And I think the answer is certainly yes.

[sheetsworld]

If a player only gets paid based upon his own performance and does not share in someone else, I cannot see why they would cheat with that person unless they swapped %s in some way. AS MLG pointed out, % swapping is far more conducive to soft playing than a simple staking arrangement.

sheets

[The Camel]

[ QUOTE ]
As cbloom said, I've heard these stories in my gossip trip to vegas, about Men's team. I've heard a more specific story, which was about Ivey's horses and the full tilt pros in the 50k WSOP HORSE tournament.

From what I've heard, Ivey and certain other key players for the team got the horses to dump chips at them in critical times, especially during the bubbles. Ivey was very shortstacked a number of times on the bubble, but recovered quickly.

Obviously I did not hear that directly from the player who complained, so I can't assure it happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally speaking, and without in evidence, I would be stunned if Ivey employed horses to chip dump. He is simply just too good to employ such tactics IMO.

And someone mentioned the Hendon Mob in this thread. I have absolute proof they do not softplay or chip dump. I was on the same table as Ram Vaswani and Ross Boatman for the EPT at Dublin. Ross ko'ed Ram within 2 hours. The same thing happened at the Masterclassics in Amsterdam.

[shaniac]

I don't know about Men's crew, they're quite inscrutable compared to the people I am aware of.

As for this:

[ QUOTE ]
You don't think all the Full Tilt team avoids each other until the final tables? It's hugely +EV for each of them for any of them to reach a final table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This still makes no sense at all until you can demonstrate a way that a FTP pros benefit from seeing someone else sponsored by the site make the FT. Most of them aren't friends, have no financial interest in each other, so I think it's decidedly -EV for them to play for each other's benefit.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
As cbloom said, I've heard these stories in my gossip trip to vegas, about Men's team. I've heard a more specific story, which was about Ivey's horses and the full tilt pros in the 50k WSOP HORSE tournament.

From what I've heard, Ivey and certain other key players for the team got the horses to dump chips at them in critical times, especially during the bubbles. Ivey was very shortstacked a number of times on the bubble, but recovered quickly.

Obviously I did not hear that directly from the player who complained, so I can't assure it happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to level an accusation/rumor like this against Ivey, please have stories, action from suspicious hands, or at least a source willing to go on record. As it is to The Camel, the idea of Ivey arranging for chips to be dumped, and in such an obvious way as to bring outside attention to it, seems basically implausible to me.

[Bolivia]

How would you quantify what cheating is worth? How does chip dumping get someone out of makeup? A player's best strategy to get out of makeup is to increase his personal EV as much as possible. This incentivizes them to not soft play, not chip dump etc.

Another thing, the risks that a backer brings on to himself by signing up unethical players FAR outways any advantages he gains in my opinion. You're dealing with situations where typically there is no contract, and in certain situations only limited ways of tracking money, not to mentioned you are trusting these people with large sums of it. Given this, it's very much in the backer's interests to bring on the most honest players they can, and get rid of anyone even with a hint of dishonesty.

If a backer felt a player of questionable ethics was so +EV, I guess he could bring the player on board if somehow he can very closely monitor them, or directly handle the money for them (however, if you're talking volume backing, backers have more important things to do than hold a players hand and handle cash for them).

[microbet]

Sheets or other backers,

Why don't you think you can write an enforceable contract for backing?