Comment on Greenstein Rating

[AceHigh]

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You totally missed the whole point of what Barry was talking about. He was talking about a live situation where you have a lot more information due to physical mannerisms to the strength of your opponent.

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Barry's comment about "Jen Hold 'em" was silly, she would get killed playing that way against any table that included a mix of good opponents. The "proof" of that is she always wins, nobody always wins at hold 'em. She could get away with that only in the most loose/passive games, in those games you don't need to read tells, you just need to be able to read hands.

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If you are want to play Jen go to FullTilt. I've seen her there a bunch of times. They just started hand histories so you can "kill" her as you say and post it for us all to admire.


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Does she play "Jen Hold 'em" on Full Tilt? If so, I may take you up on the offer. I'm certainly not saying I play better than Jen or Barry. I am saying I think anybody that saw 100% of the flops in a reasonably difficult game is going to be a big loser. I picked Party 30/60 because I'm most familiar with it and perhaps because it would be to my benefit $$$ wise.

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Sorry for the sarcasm.

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thatsalright.

[trdi]

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You should have talked first to me. I would have told you the opposite. To see that this is true, just look at the sales ranks of the Harrington books.

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Defiently. Let's be honest. Phill Hellmuth is a terrible poker author. But if he writes another book tomorrow, he will sell enough to be profitable for him (considering time and ideas he invested in the book [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ). Now Barry wrote a (my opinion) high quality book about poker which is a very interesting read. I have no doubt, that Barry could make a bestseller to attract even those who were a little bit disappointed with the AOTR book. As Barry said - with a more "poker intensive" book.
Barry, you are asking about who would buy a PL Omaha book? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] If you haven't noticed, everyone is asking for a good PL Omaha or PLE Omaha book. Harrington's Vol II book was a bestseller with no real advertisement action at the beginning. I have no doubt that your book would be considered as a must-have for a huge mass of players. Just say you are going to write it and I'll preorder it right now. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Because I still don't know what's Omaha about - nuts always wins and someone has it every time. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] The reason I still play it sometimes at lower limits is, because players there seem not to have a slightest clue about it and pay lots of money with a hand that doesn't have any chance to win.

[Grisgra]

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She could get away with that only in the most loose/passive games, in those games you don't need to read tells, you just need to be able to read hands.

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My guess is she'd have a tougher time beating those games than the "tougher" ones, only because nobody lays down a pair for anything. Without the option to bluff, her win rate pretty much would be dependent on value-betting, and when she has to play every single one of her hands . . .

I'm not a pro, but I have a hunch that in some ways that'd be a tough game to crack.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi trdi:

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Phill Hellmuth is a terrible poker author. But if he writes another book tomorrow, he will sell enough to be profitable for him (considering time and ideas he invested in the book ).

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I disagree. If it;s at the same quality as his other books, it will flop just like his books 2 and 3 are flopping.

Best wishes,
Mason

[David Sklansky]

I did not mean to include no limit or pot limit. Nor was I talking about less than full games. And it was not based on a gut opinion, but rather on thinking about the magnitude of the peflop or third street suboptimum plays that would be made and how that could not be overcome.

[MicroBob]

I mostly agree with BobDibble and Grisga.

There is some material in there that is interesting and has jogged my brain a bit but 'taking it to the next level' is something I'm not quite seeing either. Not to the extent that other posters are claiming anyway.


My biggst complaint is NOT that it isn't more poker-intensive (which seems to be what many people are accusing those who are critical of AotR).

I'm not looking for some simple poker-manual nor do I need to be told AGAIN that there are actually differences between live and online play.
It has nothing to do with that. I'm just not seeing anything really extraordinary here to warrant the comments from some readers who are now somehow viewing the game SO differently than before.


And I just was disappointed in some of the more basic stuff that Barry included like "don't bet all your poker-winnings on sports if you suck at it" and "you should be tipping your dealers and chip-runners".
These aren't exactly revolutionary money-management or etiquette tips.



These are my criticisms. But I did like the book as a whole and hope Barry isn't finished with his 'writing bug'.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Barry:

I don't buy your argument. You're comparing no limit hold 'em and pot limit Omaha to limit hold 'em, and I assume the limit hold 'em is suppose to be a full ring game.

The squeeze play that Dan made, which is also described in his books, would never work in limit hold 'em. But as Dan points out, he was going to make that play in that situation with any two cards.

This does however bring up an interesting point about your writings. An impression I get is that you put a lot of emphasis on the "skill to play loose." Perhaps in time you'll talk (and write) more about this area.

Best wishes,
Mason

[royaltrux]

I hate to admit this but I read Play Poker Like the Pros and Hellmuth said that Ted Forrest did a experiment where he played every hand besides 3 of a kind in O8 for a long extended period of time and came out of it ahead.

He admitted that he couldn't do it and didn't recommend it but said Ted had accomplished it.

Who knows.

[Peter666]

This man knows of what he speaks. Gold star.

[AceHigh]

The key words are Omaha/8. Do you know if it was limit?

Too bad it wasn't online then Ted would have to records to prove it. I don't believe it happened in a limit game, not saying it's not true, I would just have to see the PT stats to believe it.