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#1
11-25-2007, 01:37 AM
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Re: pay off?
[ QUOTE ]
"How do we as a group feel about this villian's play. Specifically the flop?" he played like crap. was it schneids? [/ QUOTE ] It wasnt Scheidner, but anyway. Mike, so this means you have AQ, the flop is J99 2-spades, you have the Qs, some donk bets into the Preflop 3-better, who you know well, and he calls and it's on you, closing the flop action, getting 11.5:1, and you are folding. All the bones in my body say for me to fold and then I look down at the ~34 chips in the middle and I toss my 3 chips in, I know I've done it. 
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#2
11-25-2007, 08:09 AM
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Re: pay off?
[ QUOTE ]
"How do we as a group feel about this villian's play. Specifically the flop?" he played like crap. was it schneids? [/ QUOTE ] I have played no hand like this versus Bob anytime in the past month+. So either it's not me, or Bob has been harboring hate in his bones for several months which has built up to this recent post.
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#3
11-16-2007, 01:56 PM
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Re: pay off?
am I blind? Villains hand looks like precisely AcQc, there are no other hands that play this way pre-or post flop that I can think of. I dont even think he would call with AKo on the turn, I dont expect to see a chop happening. Mid-game I dont know what I would do, but away from the game reading the hand history where I can take time to think about it this is an easy fold.
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#4
11-16-2007, 03:03 PM
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Re: pay off?
[ QUOTE ]
BB here is an exceptional player. [/ QUOTE ] cant be schneids
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#8
11-16-2007, 08:23 PM
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Re: pay off?
BB definately has a bigger hand than 88 here by betting into 2 live players with that board. AQc makes sense or maybe a slow, weirdly played monster. Regardless, when he bets out he is expecting to be called by someone. The only hand you can hope for is AKc, which is possible. How possible? I'm not sure but if you feel he can't have that hand here don't call. I probably pay off here, given pot size your not making a big mistake if any
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#9
11-16-2007, 09:13 PM
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Re: pay off?
[ QUOTE ]
utg is a spazz [/ QUOTE ] There is your answer. The reasons for raising the flop: 1. Your hand range has been narrowed to AsKs, AJ, AA-QQ. Given this, BB can't continue with a pocket pair. Even continuing with QT for 2bets is dubious on this paired, flushing board. 2. Once BB is out of the way, you can actually win UI some % of the time. While I agree that the majority of UTG's range contains a pair, some of it doesn't. Also, some of those pairs lose to a board pairing Jack. 3. Getting 3bet ain't that bad. Board: Js 9s 9h Hand 0: 62.982% 62.88% 00.10% 13695 22.50 { KK-JJ, 99, AJs, AJo } Hand 1: 37.018% 36.91% 00.10% 8040 22.50 { AsKs } Vs. this tight 3betting range, you're still getting back 74% of what you put in if it is HU. 4. Getting 3bet, or having BB not fold, is a great way to find out, with little equity loss, just where our AsKs ranks right now. I'm not a big fan of "raising for info", but in this case, raising has the nice side effect of giving us info. 5. You DO get a free card often. I feel that you are more likely to get a free card than you are to get 3bet, but from what you said, you don't, and you're the one who knows UTG. 6. There are many holdings for UTG for which you are gaining equity by raising as you have 15 outs. In summary, you potentially lose very little by raising the flop, while standing to gain a bunch. You fold out chops, 2-3outers, and winners from the BB. Frequent free card. Info.
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