thoughts on 3betting when you have 30-50bbs

[d2themfi]

shrug, i usually just fold in these spots. If he is openign 25% of his hands you really dont have implied odds, after u factor in the amount of times the blinds squeeze and u fold, or you call and are an underdog to their range.

And playing postflop with a small pair vs an aggressive player with shallow stacks is hard to play profitably. Position is important, but we are pretty shallow which negates some of our positional advantage. Idk, i think it is best to fold 33 here

[MrTimCaum]

[ QUOTE ]
shrug, i usually just fold in these spots. If he is openign 25% of his hands you really dont have implied odds, after u factor in the amount of times the blinds squeeze and u fold, or you call and are an underdog to their range.

And playing postflop with a small pair vs an aggressive player with shallow stacks is hard to play profitably. Position is important, but we are pretty shallow which negates some of our positional advantage. Idk, i think it is best to fold 33 here

[/ QUOTE ]

hey there, you did a much better job of explaining this than i did. i wish i was better at getting my point across [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Todd Terry]

Great posts by LearnedFromTV and sheets, coming to opposite conclusions.

If you call here, I think you are calling with the primary objective of bluffing your opponent out of the hand later on. There are 3 ways for you to win if you flat: hit a set, win a river showdown UI, or get your opponent to fold a better hand. Hitting a set is happening 12% of the time on the flop, 18% if you get to the river. Winning a river showdown unimproved is happening very rarely -- it would almost have to go c-bet, call; check, check; check, check. Thus, for flatting to be +cEV, you're going to have to turn your hand into a bluff a significant % of the time. IMO you're not deep enough to do that profitably enough. Additionally, since he's opening so wide, the odds of winning a huge hand if you hit a set are low, because he's extremely unlikely to have a hand he'll stack off with.

By 3betting pre, you're basically turning your hand into a bluff, which is only going to be +cEV if Villain is opening wide but calling/shoving narrow, which if he's opening 25% of hands he very well may be. Or as Sheets pointed out if he's calling/shoving very wide, in which case you might want to bet/call, but it's a seriously risky, marginal play. You also have a couple people behind you to worry about.

If you knew the table was breaking on the next hand, I think the max cEV play is to fold pre. If you're looking to slow down Villain, which I think is long-term +$EV, I think 3betting > flatting, because you're going to have to fold a lot of flops if you flat.

[Ben86]

youre reasonably deep in position i see no need to 3 bet here. play poker, flop some sets, float some flops, basically what bakes said.

[betgo]

I think it depends on how well you play postflop whether flat calling is best. In general, it seems to be the best approach, but 33 is not a great hand to see a flop with. Anything you do is as best slightly cEV+ compared to folding.

My analysis indicates that reraise/calling is slightly cEV+, and reraise/folding is probably atleast not cEV-.

I really don't see anything wrong with a fold if you are not comfortable with reraising or calling.

[apestyles]

I muck out of position usually. Or call but have to check raise alot of dry boards.

[Hattifnatt]

calling in this spot is not a good idea imo, 3-bet/call, 3-bet/fold or push doesnt seem like v good options either so I think its best to just fold it actually even though you are ahead of his range.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
calling in this spot is not a good idea imo, 3-bet/call, 3-bet/fold or push doesnt seem like v good options either so I think its best to just fold it actually even though you are ahead of his range.

[/ QUOTE ]


You are actually slightly behind villain's range if he is raising 25% of his hands.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

3,410,909,568 games 0.005 secs 682,181,913,600 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 46.035% 45.65% 00.39% 1556973048 13224606.00 { 33 }
Hand 1: 53.965% 53.58% 00.39% 1827487308 13224606.00 { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }


---

[apestyles]

In position calling is all right but I still think fold is the better play. To the poster that said theyd rather raise with 9To, I disagree. I'd rather flat call 9T there than 33, it flops better.

[sheetsworld]

Clearly folding is best...I thought the OP was asking about flatting as compared to reraising.

sheets

p.s...gl OP at Niagra