STTF SNG->cash thread

[MadScientist]

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well the thing is, most SNGers suck w/ 15-20BBs anyway. Its prob the depth where the most hands get posted from SNGs, b/c no one has any clue what the [censored] they're doing. Then they randomly decide it will be more profitable to play at that depth full time. lol

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I don't think this is because it is 15-20BB play. ICM makes for some weird situations with 15-20BBs and this just doesn't happen shortstacking cash. Another thing that makes 15-20BB cash play easier is that the other people at the table have wider ranges and end up opening sub-optimally against you to try to take advantage of deeper stacked players.

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But the blinds come around quicker at six max and it's easy enough to adjust to a short stacker at the table. Often raising their blinds with a small 3x or even 2.5 or 2x raise if they are really tight or only doing so with a tight range and calling a shove if they are likely to go all in with Ax seems very profitable.
Also, alot of people just leave if short stackers show up, so you may find yourself left out of the best games.
Futurdoc is totally correct. Beating the games with 100 bbs is not that hard if you put the work in, but is you start shortstacking it is like you are giving up on yourself.

[blackize]

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But the blinds come around quicker at six max

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So? You can keep reloading. All this means is you need people to play poorly against you(they do) and open up more in steal positions. Basically you can't do the old FR shortstacking technique of playing 8/6 or whatever.

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it's easy enough to adjust to a short stacker at the table

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Some know how to adjust some don't. The ones who do are usually playing 4+ tables and frequently miss stacksizes. I would also bet that you haven't adjusted properly to shortstackers. You might raise their blinds more often, but I highly doubt you know the ranges you can profitably resteal from them with or call their resteals with.

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Also, alot of people just leave if short stackers show up, so you may find yourself left out of the best games.

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Some TAGs or LAGs might leave, but the fish don't. And the TAGs and LAGs inevitably go where the fish are.

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Futurdoc is totally correct. Beating the games with 100 bbs is not that hard if you put the work in

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This just isn't true. If it were everyone would be cleaning up in 100BB games. I'm not sure if the reason they don't is because it is harder than you say(which would be my guess), because they don't put in the work, or because they tilt or whatever.

I would hardly call shortstacking giving up on yourself either. Sure 100BB play is going to yield higher winrates, but shortstacking is going to allow you to play more tables and more hands with less tilt and less focus needed. It's the same reason some people grind SNGs. They're robotic and profitable.

[microbet]

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Villian is good 26/18 4.3/3.6/3.2

Stage #750306986: Holdem No Limit $4 - 2007-09-01 04:03:23 (ET)
Table: LANCASTER (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - VOTED4KODOS ($514.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE_LOCHS ($173.30 in chips)
Seat 2 - EASTEREGGTIM ($1392.80 in chips)
Seat 3 - THEMADRUSIAN ($810 in chips)
Seat 4 - U2B52 ($199.32 in chips)
THE_LOCHS - Posts small blind $2
EASTEREGGTIM - Posts big blind $4
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to VOTED4KODOS [Qd Ac]
THEMADRUSIAN - Raises $16 to $16
U2B52 - Folds
VOTED4KODOS - Raises $50 to $50
THE_LOCHS - Folds
EASTEREGGTIM - Folds
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $34
*** FLOP *** [6c Kc Qc]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - Bets $80
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $80
*** TURN *** [6c Kc Qc] [Ah]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - ?

I only 3 bet him a couple times tonight and he folded.


definitely check here. river seems pretty easy to play not sure what you want to hear there. call/bet if checked to on a non-club, shove over a bet and bet if checked to on a club.
Plan for the rest of the hand too.

The correct play actually seems pretty clear to me after thinking about it for 1/2 an hour and chatting on AIM. I hope I learned something.

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Yeah, not really that hard of a spot. Ok, with that behind me I'm set. Sign me up for High Stakes Poker.

[K䲰䮥n]

Both Villains are TAGs.

Seat 1: KibbaN ( $262.50 )
Seat 3: Firetribe ( $103.10 )
Seat 6: Julibe ( $141.22 )
Seat 8: Pokerfisen ( $98.25 )
Seat 10: Barcader ( $113.80 )
Barcader posts Small Blind $0.50
KibbaN posts Big Blind $1

Dealing cards
Your cards K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Firetribe]
Firetribe raises $3.50
Julibe folds
Pokerfisen calls $3.50
Barcader folds
KibbaN raises $14.50
Firetribe calls $12
Pokerfisen calls $12

Dealing Flop 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
KibbaN checks
Firetribe checks
Pokerfisen bets $15
KibbaN calls $15
Firetribe folds

I have two quesions on PF.

A) Would it be wrong to shove here since the cold caller looks weak and there's a change that the 3-bettor is squeezing.

B) Do I have the (implied) odds to call PF and fold to every missed flop? Should I just fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[dipstikdave]

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Villian is good 26/18 4.3/3.6/3.2

Stage #750306986: Holdem No Limit $4 - 2007-09-01 04:03:23 (ET)
Table: LANCASTER (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - VOTED4KODOS ($514.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE_LOCHS ($173.30 in chips)
Seat 2 - EASTEREGGTIM ($1392.80 in chips)
Seat 3 - THEMADRUSIAN ($810 in chips)
Seat 4 - U2B52 ($199.32 in chips)
THE_LOCHS - Posts small blind $2
EASTEREGGTIM - Posts big blind $4
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to VOTED4KODOS [Qd Ac]
THEMADRUSIAN - Raises $16 to $16
U2B52 - Folds
VOTED4KODOS - Raises $50 to $50
THE_LOCHS - Folds
EASTEREGGTIM - Folds
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $34
*** FLOP *** [6c Kc Qc]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - Bets $80
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $80
*** TURN *** [6c Kc Qc] [Ah]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - ?

I only 3 bet him a couple times tonight and he folded.


definitely check here. river seems pretty easy to play not sure what you want to hear there. call/bet if checked to on a non-club, shove over a bet and bet if checked to on a club.
Plan for the rest of the hand too.

The correct play actually seems pretty clear to me after thinking about it for 1/2 an hour and chatting on AIM. I hope I learned something.

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Yeah, not really that hard of a spot. Ok, with that behind me I'm set. Sign me up for High Stakes Poker.

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how big a bet do you call on a non club river?

[Pudge714]

FD,
Misread your post, this is just like the time you boycotted the NFL.
Microbet honestly it seems to me like any decision on any street you make is fine.
Edit: After thinking about the hand for more than 5 seconds. Turn is a really easy check there are very few worse hands he bets a bet in on the turn and you aren't worried about protecting your hand. Flop is obviously fine so long as you never fold when he shoves.

[microbet]

K,

I think your line is good. I really don't mind being careful with AK in bad position.

Because of your position you are going to want to play a small careful pot or get it in quickly. Which one depends on the villians and your image.

Instead of pushing I think I'd rather raise to $50 as that will look like AA and them folding would be cool. You'll still have to get it all in, but they aren't going to have a wider range for calling you than they would for the push.

If you're in a wild and crazy game where a push is likely to get called very light, then pushing may be good, but these guys are TAG.

[costanza_g]

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Villian is good 26/18 4.3/3.6/3.2

Stage #750306986: Holdem No Limit $4 - 2007-09-01 04:03:23 (ET)
Table: LANCASTER (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - VOTED4KODOS ($514.50 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE_LOCHS ($173.30 in chips)
Seat 2 - EASTEREGGTIM ($1392.80 in chips)
Seat 3 - THEMADRUSIAN ($810 in chips)
Seat 4 - U2B52 ($199.32 in chips)
THE_LOCHS - Posts small blind $2
EASTEREGGTIM - Posts big blind $4
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to VOTED4KODOS [Qd Ac]
THEMADRUSIAN - Raises $16 to $16
U2B52 - Folds
VOTED4KODOS - Raises $50 to $50
THE_LOCHS - Folds
EASTEREGGTIM - Folds
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $34
*** FLOP *** [6c Kc Qc]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - Bets $80
THEMADRUSIAN - Calls $80
*** TURN *** [6c Kc Qc] [Ah]
THEMADRUSIAN - Checks
VOTED4KODOS - ?

I only 3 bet him a couple times tonight and he folded.


definitely check here. river seems pretty easy to play not sure what you want to hear there. call/bet if checked to on a non-club, shove over a bet and bet if checked to on a club.
Plan for the rest of the hand too.

The correct play actually seems pretty clear to me after thinking about it for 1/2 an hour and chatting on AIM. I hope I learned something.

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Wait a minute.....

Why are we checking the turn? This seems like the easiest valuebet in history.


Edit: on second thought, a check might not be that bad...but im going apeshit on any river. Except maybe one with a J, T or K [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[microbet]

re: my hand

What can he check/call on the flop?

AA is possible, but he's very likely to have 4 bet preflop.

TTc, JJc, JTs are possible.

Slowplaying a made flush is possible.

It would be very hard for him to check a made flush on a non-club river so I can bet if he checks and I can call most bets as he could take a shot or even think he's value betting the river with a worse hand, putting me on a lower PP.

There really aren't any worse hands that can call turn, but they might call something on the river and if he's drawing it's either very thin or to a worse flush.

In the actual hand, I pushed the turn, he had Tc8c and I sucked out. I had 25% equity against his hand and maybe 35% against his range, but the hands that were behind were way behind, so folding them would have been bad on the turn. My bad.

[dipstikdave]

is this too weak against a decent opponent? only played a couple of hands heads up with him, but at a full table he was pretty weak tight.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

BB ($54.65)
Hero ($65.85)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, BB calls $1.

Flop: ($3) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, BB calls $5.

Turn: ($17) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $12</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $17