ZeeJustin the next to get caught multi accounting Party MTTs

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

i cant believe you guys almost let this get off the front page..... =/

[flight2q]

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So, this thread has now caused me to put three posters on ignore. Anyone have that beat?

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Make if 4 (assuming lawyers count).

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Of course lawyers count. There's a bounty out on them. But if you're looking to avoid them, then stay away from coffee shops: Schlock Mercenary

[jman220]

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I've been impressed with your insight into and analysis of my background, character, and motivations. If I were your instructor, I'd help you connect the dots. I'm not, so I'll just let my posts speak for themselves.

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If aeeest is really a lawyer like he claims, and not just a law student, he is actually in violation of several ethical standards in soliciting a client in this manner, and could be reported to his state bar.

[aeest400]

I'm debating in a forum on a site I'm a member of. Could you please post the relevant rule? I didn't think so.

But thanks for posting: this thread certainly isn't short of ethics police.

[ALReturnsLOL]

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I'm debating in a forum on a site I'm a member of. Could you please post the relevant rule? I didn't think so.

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pwned!

[jman220]

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I'm debating in a forum on a site I'm a member of. Could you please post the relevant rule? I didn't think so.

But thanks for posting: this thread certainly isn't short of ethics police.

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From: ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct and Code of Judicial Conduct:



notably:

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RULE 7.1 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT

A lawyer shall not make a false or misleading communication about the lawyer or the lawyer's services. A communication is false or misleading if it:

(b) is likely to create an unjustified expectation about results the lawyer can achieve, or states or implies that the lawyer can achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or

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As well as:

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RULE 7.2 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT n8



n8 Amended February 7, 1989, American Bar Association House of Delegates, Denver, Colorado, per Report No. 120B.
(a) Subject to the requirements of Rules 7.1 and 7.3, a lawyer may advertise services through public media, such as a telephone directory, legal directory, newspapaer or other periodical, outdoor advertising, radio or television, or through written or recorded communication.

(b) A copy or recording of an advertisement or communication shall be kept for two years after its last dissemination along with a record of when and where it as used.

(c) A lawyer shall not give anything of value to a person for recommending the lawyer's services, expect that a lawyer may

(1) pay the reasonable costs of advertisements or communications permitted by this Rule;

(2) pay the usual charges of a not-for-profit lawyer referral service or legal service organization; and

(3) pay for a law practice in accordance with Rule 1.17.

(d) Any communication made pursuant to this rule shall include the name of at least one lawyer responsible for its content.

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note that you are in violation of (d) on this one. Here's another one: (For this one I'm assuming that you've probably pm'd Zee, and since email's have been interpreted to satisfy the electronic contact prong of this test, there's no doubt that a PM would as well, but even if you didn't you are certainly on shaky ground by replying to his post, which could be interpreted as communication with him):

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RULE 7.3 n48 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT (2002)

n48 Amended February 5th, 2002, American Bar Association House of Delegates, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, per Report No. 401.



(a) A lawyer shall not by in-person, live telephone or real-time electronic contact solicit professional employment from a prospective client when a significant motive for the lawyer's doing so is the lawyer's pecuniary gain, unless the person contacted:


(1) is a lawyer; or

(2) has a family, close personal, or prior professional relationship with the lawyer.

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I hope any PM's you sent to Zee had the words "Advertising Material" written on them (Once again the below provision has been applied by the courts to electronic communications such as emails, and by extension would apply to PM's as well, and arguably could apply to your response to his post):

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Rule 7.3c:

(c) Every written or recorded communication from a lawyer soliciting professional employment from a prospective client know to be in need of legal services in a particular matter, and with whom the lawyer has no family or prior professional relationship, shall include the words "Advertising Material" on the outside envelope and at the beginning and ending of any recorded communication.

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And possibly the most glaring problem, your Post "Anyone else who has this problem PM me, you'll be glad you did," violates both these provisions:

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RULE 7.1 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT



A lawyer shall not make a false or misleading communication about the lawyer or the lawyer's services. A communication is false or misleading if it:

(a) contains a material misrepresentation of fact or law, or omits a fact necessary to make the statement considered as a whole not materially misleading;

(b) is likely to create an unjustified expectation about results the lawyer can achieve, or states or implies that the lawyer can achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or

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There are also a host of problems with the fact that you are trying to effectively give legal advice to a non-client, but I'm busy and I'll save that for another day.

The article linked a page or so up by that gambling lawyer in California who describes you as an attorney trolling for clients seems pretty accurate. And that my friend, is unethical.

[jman220]

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I'm debating in a forum on a site I'm a member of. Could you please post the relevant rule? I didn't think so.

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pwned!

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And we're at #3 on the ignore list.

[stew77]

ZeeJustin and JJ are cheaters. Plain and simple. They both deserve to lose all that money. They should both be ashamed that they can consider themselves "professionals", yet they cheat by having numerous accounts in the same tourney (sit and go). what a joke they both are.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm debating in a forum on a site I'm a member of. Could you please post the relevant rule? I didn't think so.

But thanks for posting: this thread certainly isn't short of ethics police.

[/ QUOTE ]




From: ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct and Code of Judicial Conduct:



notably:

[ QUOTE ]
RULE 7.1 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT

A lawyer shall not make a false or misleading communication about the lawyer or the lawyer's services. A communication is false or misleading if it:

(b) is likely to create an unjustified expectation about results the lawyer can achieve, or states or implies that the lawyer can achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or

[/ QUOTE ]

As well as:

[ QUOTE ]
RULE 7.2 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT n8



n8 Amended February 7, 1989, American Bar Association House of Delegates, Denver, Colorado, per Report No. 120B.
(a) Subject to the requirements of Rules 7.1 and 7.3, a lawyer may advertise services through public media, such as a telephone directory, legal directory, newspapaer or other periodical, outdoor advertising, radio or television, or through written or recorded communication.

(b) A copy or recording of an advertisement or communication shall be kept for two years after its last dissemination along with a record of when and where it as used.

(c) A lawyer shall not give anything of value to a person for recommending the lawyer's services, expect that a lawyer may

(1) pay the reasonable costs of advertisements or communications permitted by this Rule;

(2) pay the usual charges of a not-for-profit lawyer referral service or legal service organization; and

(3) pay for a law practice in accordance with Rule 1.17.

(d) Any communication made pursuant to this rule shall include the name of at least one lawyer responsible for its content.

[/ QUOTE ]

note that you are in violation of (d) on this one. Here's another one: (For this one I'm assuming that you've probably pm'd Zee, and since email's have been interpreted to satisfy the electronic contact prong of this test, there's no doubt that a PM would as well, but even if you didn't you are certainly on shaky ground by replying to his post, which could be interpreted as communication with him):

[ QUOTE ]
RULE 7.3 n48 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT (2002)

n48 Amended February 5th, 2002, American Bar Association House of Delegates, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, per Report No. 401.



(a) A lawyer shall not by in-person, live telephone or real-time electronic contact solicit professional employment from a prospective client when a significant motive for the lawyer's doing so is the lawyer's pecuniary gain, unless the person contacted:


(1) is a lawyer; or

(2) has a family, close personal, or prior professional relationship with the lawyer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope any PM's you sent to Zee had the words "Advertising Material" written on them (Once again the below provision has been applied by the courts to electronic communications such as emails, and by extension would apply to PM's as well, and arguably could apply to your response to his post):

[ QUOTE ]
Rule 7.3c:

(c) Every written or recorded communication from a lawyer soliciting professional employment from a prospective client know to be in need of legal services in a particular matter, and with whom the lawyer has no family or prior professional relationship, shall include the words "Advertising Material" on the outside envelope and at the beginning and ending of any recorded communication.

[/ QUOTE ]

And possibly the most glaring problem, your Post "Anyone else who has this problem PM me, you'll be glad you did," violates both these provisions:

[ QUOTE ]
RULE 7.1 ABA MODEL RULES OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT



A lawyer shall not make a false or misleading communication about the lawyer or the lawyer's services. A communication is false or misleading if it:

(a) contains a material misrepresentation of fact or law, or omits a fact necessary to make the statement considered as a whole not materially misleading;

(b) is likely to create an unjustified expectation about results the lawyer can achieve, or states or implies that the lawyer can achieve results by means that violate the Rules of Professional Conduct or other law; or

[/ QUOTE ]




There are also a host of problems with the fact that you are trying to effectively give legal advice to a non-client, but I'm busy and I'll save that for another day.

The article linked a page or so up by that gambling lawyer in California who describes you as an attorney trolling for clients seems pretty accurate. And that my friend, is unethical.




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Just in case anyone missed the link to the article describing poster as a "sarcastic and snide" attorney "trolling for clients:" http://howardtreesong.livejournal.com/15868.html

He pretty well knocks down most of the spurious legal arguments as well, I recommend anyone who might actually be considering contacting AEEEST to read that article first, and if you decide you need a lawyer, contact your local State Bar for references to good ones, and not some internet troll.

[Hobbes413]

Well, since I've waded through almost this entire thread, I may as well weigh in here myself.

The issue that I haven't seen addressed, and the one that's bothering me the most, is that ZeeJustin and a few other high level players seem to feel no obligation to give anything back to the game of poker. In ZJ's case, not only did he not see fit to give back, but was so greedy that he sought to dishonestly claim even more from a game that has already given him so much.

My own personal philosophy is that those who are the most blessed owe the greatest debt. It offends me to see anyone cheat or steal, but this offense is heightened when it comes from someone who was already born with the tools to make a greater living than most people could dream of by simply applying the gifts God has granted him.

Why is it never enough for some people to just be thankful for their blessings? What a sad testament to this young man's lack of character to cheat in a game in which he already has a significant edge. The guy is twenty years old making more than most people twice his age, and it still isn't enough.

I've seen a great deal of elitism and moral relativism in this thread and elsewhere on two plus two. It saddens me that so many successful players seek to pull up the ladder behind them as soon as they've made it to the top. Many seem to forget that no one, no matter how naturally gifted, ever makes it to the top without some help. Hard work is always required to succeed at a high level, but no man's success is entirely his own.

Anyone who truly loves and respects this game, anyone with an ounce of character, should feel compelled to return the help he received not in kind, but exponentially to his success.

Those who shrug at cheating and claim that it is not their place to police the world might want to consider that others may one day hope to enjoy the means of financial success that they have enjoyed. This will only be possible if online poker continues to be viewed as a basically trustworthy game. It is in every honest player's self-interest to ensure the integrity of the game. If one finds himself with a bitter taste in his mouth at the mere mention of morals, ethics, or obligation, then this alone should be enough.

As far as Curtain's role in all of this, I think that many of the posters here owe the man an apology. He is one of the single table forum's best contributors and, in my opinion, the epitome of class. He clearly played no role in sanctioning or excusing ZJ's cheating, and simply has a difference of opinion than others (myself included) on the matter of ZJ's character.

I'd also like to mention that, although many people here have disappointed me greatly, there are some fantastic contributors here at twoplustwo at all levels of play. I owe a great deal of my (modest) success to this forum, and hope that it remains a community where we can all help each other reach our potential, not exploit one another for personal gain.

In the end, when you help another you usually wind up helping yourself along the way.