Ethics of Releasing Sensitive Information - ZJ related.

[Erik Blazynski]

1. US laws in no way pertain to off shore poker rooms.
2. Companies sell your personal information every single day.
3. This is poker, these cheats are lucky that someone doesn't come and break their thumbs. Just like any other "sport" the players need not be anonymous. When a player is suspended in the NFL, the league discloses the amount of money that is lost per game.
4. I believe that you have a choice to play at these online card rooms or not. If you don't like that cheaters have their identity and bank rolls disclosed then show your voice by not playing at these card rooms.

[Erik Blazynski]

People with egos as large as ZJ don't take their own lives, they pretty much think that the world centers around them.

[Erik Blazynski]

ZJ admitted to cheating, also this would be VERY easy to prove, they could easily obtain the IP addresses of the computers that he used. Not only could they be traced to ZJs location but patters could easily be developed.

[Erik Blazynski]

Now you are talking about warrant less search which is illegal. The police are however able to post in the newspaper that fact that you were pulled over and what you were pulled over for, this is a closer analogy. The warrant less search issue would be analogous to the police coming to ZJ's house and searching his computer, which in this country would not be legal without a warrant.

[Erik Blazynski]

[ QUOTE ]

The main reason I post this is due to the extremely negative impact this will have on two individuals who commit relatively minor offences, who have been branded as cheaters and is/will be universially hated within the poker community for the foreseeable future (probably will have issues in any casino/other public places the next few years).

To me, this smells like corporations (and the mob) taking the law in their own hands. I could be wrong, and there could be issues I have overlooked - this is why I would like to see some discussion on the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is by no means a minor offense. you clearly do not undersatnd that advantage that a player has who is playing 2 hands at the same table. This is a MAJOR offense. If ZJ played back in the day when Doyle was hitting the games back in Texas he would be at the bottom of a lake right now, and he would not have scuba gear. You screw other people out of $100,000+ and there is a price to pay.

Party and Stars simply took the money back and will redispurse it to the players that deserve it. I feel that Party should send out a press release regarding the matter and should do that will all cheaters.

RE: B&M play, these guys should be banned from the casinos. And they should cast out of the poker community. They are know cheats.

RE: the corporation taking the law into their own hands, IT IS THEIR JOB TO POLICE THIS SITUATION.. The mob would put these cheats to the bottom of a lake and you would never hear from them again.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with a 2rd party posting this.
Here's essentially how I read it.


Attention World:

I have uncovered a player who I know to be an online-cheat.
His name is XXXX.
Here's the e-mail from Party confirming that he cheated.
If you played in an event against him or any of his accounts I think you should be aware that you may be due some compensation.
Even if you haven't played against him you may be interested in asking Party how much cheating is going on at their site and what they intend to do about it.



Your point that somebody can just make it up is somewhat valid I suppose.
But I could also just say that you rob little children of their milk-money and I can do this right now if I choose.

So I'm not too concerned on the 'dangers' of someone faking a 'so-and-so is a cheater' e-mail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Microbob is spot on. If I was someone was cheated how am I supposed to know about it unless it is publicized? The people cheated have a right to make a claim for damages. Party is perfectly within their rights to publicize this.

Look at class action lawsuits as an example. Some one might be using a dangerous product or be eligible for compensation based upon somebody else's improper actions. How do you find theses people? You have to publicize it. The right to privacy is not an issue, the expectation of privacy is silly.

So, using OP's analogy, would a pedophile still have a right to privacy, even if he moves across the street from an elementary school? Should a poker cheat has the right to privacy at an online poker site?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no problem with a 2rd party posting this.
Here's essentially how I read it.


Attention World:

I have uncovered a player who I know to be an online-cheat.
His name is XXXX.
Here's the e-mail from Party confirming that he cheated.
If you played in an event against him or any of his accounts I think you should be aware that you may be due some compensation.
Even if you haven't played against him you may be interested in asking Party how much cheating is going on at their site and what they intend to do about it.



[/ QUOTE ]

Bob - I think the problem is that Party included zjustin's login name in the email that was sent to the op (not of this thread, of the ZJ outing thread). When I read that I was very mad at Party for a disclosure of that amount, however my anger was mitigated by the disgust I had in zjustin's actions.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[TonyDanza]

Duty to protect the interests of non-cheatering customers > duty to protect the privacy interests of [douche bag] cheaters.

This argument holds morally, legally, ethically, etc.

[fatherofmany]

[ QUOTE ]
Now you are talking about warrant less search which is illegal. The police are however able to post in the newspaper that fact that you were pulled over and what you were pulled over for, this is a closer analogy. The warrant less search issue would be analogous to the police coming to ZJ's house and searching his computer, which in this country would not be legal without a warrant.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're pulled over for a speeding violation and refuse a "request" to search your vehicle (or body), that alone is probable cause in most jurisdictions and no good will come of it.

I think we should see Poker as a Sport in these days. The arguments that in Doyles time ZJ would be on the bottom of a lake or missing his thumbs etc. just pulls it back to the niche Poker was back then.
For all Pokerplayers it is very profitable that Poker has become accepted in the society as "sport", like chess. Pls don't discuss the word sport, as you can call it a game of skill if you want.

If we want to hold on that, we should punish the cheaters the same way they are punished in sports.
What is done with a sportsman that uses doping?
The federation will tell the public the names, the medicamentation they used and will ban them for a certain amount of time.
I think we should relate to PP and PS as federations in this case. Ok, there is no other federation in the world that takes that high rakes but ...
What i want to say, is that they should not be seen as companies that must in first line protect the privacy of sportsmen, but as federation, that must protect the sport.

I hope everybody learns from their mistakes and would recommend a two years ban. After that everybody deserves a new chance.