What would you do about Virginia Tech?

[onthebutton]

whiskeytown,

Initial reports indicate he wasn't shooting all moving targets. Some of these kids were lined up and shot execution-style. Also, initial reports indicate it was a student. We'll see about the handgun training, but how many college kids have handgun training? Maybe he grew up hunting or something.....

I grew up around guns, and grew up in Colorado. I was just out of high school when Columbine happened, and in college in Denver. I grew up on a farm, and was an avid hunter, as were most of my friends. Farm kids, you know. A couple days after Columbine happened, I was talking on the phone to one of my friends from high school about Columbine. We both agreed that it was terrible, but both had the same thought when the reports came out---it could have been so much worse if it was kids like us that went nuts like that. I don't think most people realized that. Us, and most of our buddies, had lots of experience with guns. In a place like a school, someone with our experience/practice could have done so much worse than those two rejects did. I'm not glorifying this at all, because I don't think it's cool, I'm just telling a story. I'm actually kind of ashamed that we thought this at the time, but in reflection, it's very true.

[Metric]

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If you possess high caps purchased before 2000, they are legal. That being said, no college-aged kid today can own those legally.

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Not correct. Assuming you don't live in a state like CA which has its own seperate magazine restrictions, you can buy 15-round (or whatever) mags locally.

Of course, it really doesn't matter much to someone with some experience -- "low cap" (10-round or less) mags can be swapped out in 2 seconds or less.

[whiskeytown]

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whiskeytown,

Initial reports indicate he wasn't shooting all moving targets. Some of these kids were lined up and shot execution-style.


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this just gets worse and worse -

I grew up on a farm in Montana, and also know guns pretty well, but being a farm, well, my speciality was sniping gophers with a .22, not handgun accuracy - I suck with handguns still.

rb

[esad]

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but it seems to me the experience in these incidents has been a high wound rate/lower kill rate. It's not like Bruce Willis or Chow Yun-Fat in the real world - (usually) -

with 20 wounded and 20+ killed, he must have had a lot of students cornered off and went in there with both guns blazing -

it would explain how he could go from one shooting to the next without setting off a panic - it makes concealing the weapons easier.

at the least, I'd imagine he's had handgun training.

rb

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FWIW a family member of mine that works in a police department and has worked on a case like this, has explained to me before that often the police won't reveal some of the details of the shootings like this and even the media will choose not to.

What usually happens is the gunman will shoot people and then when they are down on the ground will go up one by one and head shot them. That's why the casualties are so high. They are trying to kill people not just shoot them.

And to answer the OP. There really isn't that much you can do. This was planned attack by someone who wanted to kill as many people as possible. Pretty impossible to stop unless you want to start putting up feds and metal detectors on every street corner.

[MasterLJ]

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If you possess high caps purchased before 2000, they are legal. That being said, no college-aged kid today can own those legally.

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Not correct. Assuming you don't live in a state like CA which has its own seperate magazine restrictions, you can buy 15-round (or whatever) mags locally.

Of course, it really doesn't matter much to someone with some experience -- "low cap" (10-round or less) mags can be swapped out in 2 seconds or less.

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I am in CA.

And you are correct. Against unarmed targets, it really doesn't matter how many rounds your mag can hold.

[UATrewqaz]

There is no way to stop someone who is determined to kill people and has no regard for his own life.

If we had an answer suicide bombers would have stopped along time ago.

Caring about one's own life is a major physological barrier. Our biology/evolution has conditioned us to be all about self preservation.

Death is the ultimate deterent from doing something.

Once someone has "snapped" and no longer fears death, or actually WANTS to die, nothing can be done to stop them.

The only thing you can do is train personal and have emergency procedures in place that will minimize the damage these loose cannons cause.

Security measures, say a metal detector, might ID someone with a gun or bomb, but all that does is limit them to killing the personal at the detector, rather than in the building or plane or base or something.

[samsonite2100]

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I think they're saying he had two 9MMs and lots of clips of ammo.

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well, we already have laws that limit the number of shells for some of the high capacity automatics, so he probably had some from before the bill was passed which I believe were still legal.

so I doubt more laws will make a difference.

rb

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If you possess high caps purchased before 2000, they are legal. That being said, no college-aged kid today can own those legally.

Dids said it best in another thread, that no amount of gun control could have stopped this.

IMO, this situation highlights why a 100% ban on firearms doesn't work. Criminals don't care.

How would this story be changed if a gun-toting responsible student put an end to the gunman's life?

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I find it interesting that the first conclusion many people are drawing about this is that no amount of gun control would have made a difference.

[MasterLJ]

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I think they're saying he had two 9MMs and lots of clips of ammo.

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well, we already have laws that limit the number of shells for some of the high capacity automatics, so he probably had some from before the bill was passed which I believe were still legal.

so I doubt more laws will make a difference.

rb

[/ QUOTE ]

If you possess high caps purchased before 2000, they are legal. That being said, no college-aged kid today can own those legally.

Dids said it best in another thread, that no amount of gun control could have stopped this.

IMO, this situation highlights why a 100% ban on firearms doesn't work. Criminals don't care.

How would this story be changed if a gun-toting responsible student put an end to the gunman's life?

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I find it interesting that the first conclusion many people are drawing about this is that no amount of gun control would have made a difference.

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That's because it's an accurate assertion. The mass murderer was clearly in violation of gun laws and obviously had little regard for the law. Unless you go on a Crusader campaign across the globe, you will always be able to get firearms.

[UATrewqaz]

Let's go ahead and make murder "super triple" illegal. That'll be sure to stop it.

Making guns illegal will lead to:

1. A huge underground, black market for guns, and all the elements that come with an underground black market (mafia, violence, etc.)

2. Crude, home-made guns popping up every where. Believe it or not a gun is not THAT sophisticated of a machine. We aren't talking a nuclear reactor here. Anyone with some basic equipment and training will be able to make a functioning firearm.

Do you really think someone who wants to murder as many people as possible gives a flying rat's behind about breaking a "gun" law?

Has making drugs illegal stopped people from buying/selling drugs?

A gun is simply an inanimate lump of metal and/or wood.

People who want to kill others can/will always find a way.



ZERO guns involved ^^^^

[onthebutton]

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I think they're saying he had two 9MMs and lots of clips of ammo.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, we already have laws that limit the number of shells for some of the high capacity automatics, so he probably had some from before the bill was passed which I believe were still legal.

so I doubt more laws will make a difference.

rb

[/ QUOTE ]

If you possess high caps purchased before 2000, they are legal. That being said, no college-aged kid today can own those legally.

Dids said it best in another thread, that no amount of gun control could have stopped this.

IMO, this situation highlights why a 100% ban on firearms doesn't work. Criminals don't care.

How would this story be changed if a gun-toting responsible student put an end to the gunman's life?

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I find it interesting that the first conclusion many people are drawing about this is that no amount of gun control would have made a difference.

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How many gun laws are on the books now? 19,000? 29,000? Something like that. They were obviously effective in this case, weren't they? Gun control laws do virtually nothing to curb gun violence.