disappointment - and goodbye

[dangerous_squid]

samoleus,

Can't blame you for being discouraged at the amount of circuitous bickering and finger-pointing in these forums. But as a constant lurker here it seems apparent you are a player (amoung several) who could truly add to the quality of these forums.

C'mon guys, I thought these forums were a way to share great theories and stories, not argue over the validity of someone's personal statements. We should be encouraging experienced players to post here, not disputing them away. Doing so takes away from the quality of these forums for everyone.

[LearnedfromTV]

I just scanned the first thread again and should recant a bit. Kane started out being civil, Sam was civil back, and then Kane shifted into hyper flippant insult mode unprovoked, mainly in this second thread and at the end of the first.

There is plenty of content in sam's original post that the thread could have focused on, but even if you thought the theory content was simple and boring to the great minds on the board, there was no need to have the thread degenerate into a pissing contest about winrates. Maybe Gaming Club's 50/100 had a few monster fish than none of you know about, maybe sam ran insanely hot for a few months last year. Maybe his style really is more effective than you can imagine, in the right hands and maybe he really is that good. Maybe he's quoting $2200 an hour including all three years, including a lot of play above 10/20. Maybe you don't know all his screen names. Or maybe he exaggerated and is embarrassed. Whatever. It doesn't have to be the focus. It doesn't matter if you believe him or not. If he was capable of being a good poster and made one lie he was too embarrassed to admit, and he stayed here for years without admitting it, would it matter if he provided good posts?

[samoleus]

Sigh. KKF, Yeti, fsuplayer, fallenhero, etc - you obviously miss the point. Whether or not you believe me about my win-rate is completely immaterial. The point is that my post was intended to talk about LAG style, turning pro, etc. I never mentioned win-rate in it. Despite my writing out a thoughtful post as such, you guys choose to focus on my win-rate - which was posted only in response to a thread by KKF.

In my time lurking here, it is obvious to me that KKF, Yeti, and a lot of the other flamers on here are very insecure and jealous. Their responses do not really surprise me. I am surprised at you however fsu. Very immature and childish and not something I expected from you.

Of course, I have to accept the fact that some instrinsic immaturity on my part precludes me from brushing off you guys and the other insecure or jealous fools on here.

But ultimately, the point that you guys keep forgetting is that it doesn't matter whether you believe me or not. My win-rate should not have been the topic of discussion.

[LearnedfromTV]

They aren't jealous and insecure. They're just nineteen, have a lot of money, and think they're the [censored], like a lot of nineteen year olds.

[Yeti]

Heh.

What has KKF to be jealous of? He is one of the richest m'fers here.

I am not jealous, I just hate to see false info get posted, which happens quite a lot around here. Stuff that exagerrates how many people are making $xxx/hr, gives false ideas about variance etc, and what is and isn't possible. I feel I have a pretty grasp on things after having played and observed the games extensively for the last year.

Anyway, stick around and post. Or don't. I have a feeling whatever I say won't change your mind.

[Shaun]

[ QUOTE ]
Sam,

You're making the right decision even if the forum would greatly benefit from your contribution.

I echo bkholdem's comments, just know that you made a difference for many lurkers here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the forum benefits by having people like BKHoldem refers to running off anyone who tries to post threads other than "I push with 5 high look how LAGGY I am" rofllolololol.

Do you see why?

[Shaun]

[ QUOTE ]

C'mon guys, I thought these forums were a way to share great theories and stories, not argue over the validity of someone's personal statements.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need more experience on internet forums before you can make outrageous claims like this one.

[Fallen Hero]

[ QUOTE ]
I just scanned the first thread again and should recant a bit. Kane started out being civil, Sam was civil back, and then Kane shifted into hyper flippant insult mode unprovoked, mainly in this second thread and at the end of the first.

[/ QUOTE ]

sam: bla bla bla, should I turn pro?
kkf: your game has plenty of holes
sam: I made 6millions
kff: turn pro
sam: about about legal stuff?
kkf: np there
(everyone starts doubting the 6million figure)
sam: I don't use stats
kff: is this US dollars?
(kkf posts a couple of statistics showing how ridiculous the claim is)

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
samoleus,

Can't blame you for being discouraged at the amount of circuitous bickering and finger-pointing in these forums. But as a constant lurker here it seems apparent you are a player (amoung several) who could truly add to the quality of these forums.

C'mon guys, I thought these forums were a way to share great theories and stories, not argue over the validity of someone's personal statements. We should be encouraging experienced players to post here, not disputing them away. Doing so takes away from the quality of these forums for everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe some people, albeit unconsciously, wish to maintain a status/position which they perceive is threatened. And maybe others step in line behind him/them and behave like sheep in their replies. And maybe those people are putting ego ahead of poker edumacation.

[IHateCats]

With respect Sam, winrate is highly relevent to some aspects of the discussion you were hoping to have. Your longterm winrate in higher level games has a lot to do with the viabiltity of quitting a secure/established job, particularly if you have grown up responsibilties which clearly you do. I have played quite a bit with you at the 10/20 Party and I don't have have slightest doubt that you can make a sum substantially in excess of the salary you mentioned playing poker full time for the next few years in various forms. What I've said in previous posts is that I haven't seen evidence of your 10/20 play yet that would equal the overall winrate you are talking about but I am aware that there might be reasons why that data I have might be inadequate. Whether the benefits of playing poker professionally besides the financial ones are worth it to leave the stability of the day job are ultimately up to you, I personally haven't found it to be so but I have an unusually flexible day job in the first place and only a fiance.

Winrate is also a relevant measure of the success of a style/strategy of poker under given circumstances, since in the end $ won is the ultimate measurement. So of course your winrate became a central topic of discussion since the Party 10/20 is the most well recorded platform that most HSNL posters play in. It's unfortunate that you don't have your own statistics because they would obviously be the most complete picture. Don't let that sidetrack you from what you hoped to gain from the forum.

Aside from that however, if you want to discuss strategy, I would suggest you do so in a slightly more concrete manner as turnip suggested, perhaps a string of hands ala some of bruiser's old HU posts since metagame considerations are very, very important to your strategy in each hand. Poker takes a thick skin, so you'd be well served by this forum if you can shrug off this initial reaction and focus on what it has to offer, there is a wealth of knowledge to be had though sometimes it's in realizing how wrong the majority opinion is.