questions about going to vegas sportsbooks for first time

[Thremp]

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This will land you in jail

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Please name one person who "landed in jail" for withdrawing money from their bank account.

(EDIT: Wait a sec, I thought I had you on "ignore". How did I read this?)

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Structuring is a crime.

Note: Do you actually win money at sports or are you just a counter guy who wrote a buncha really funny stories?

[youtalkfunny]

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Structuring is a crime.

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So is jaywalking, but I've never heard of anyone "landing in jail" for it.

[Thremp]

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Structuring is a crime.

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So is jaywalking, but I've never heard of anyone "landing in jail" for it.

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Just like you don't run through traffic in front of the cops. You don't take out 9.9k each day or probably ever. Avoiding a SAR would be a good way to avoid looking like a money launderer.

[tippy]

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Only 3 MLB futures were up that I could find last week. Just about every sportsbook had the odds to win the World series and the odds to win the NL/AL pennant and odds for each division. I went to Vegas and was hoping to get a bet in on my Cubs, but someone beat me to them. Opening odds for winning the WS were 75:1, but had fallen to 8:1 by last week. 8:1 just wasn't enough for me to bet the Cubs.
Even the odds of 3:2 for the Cubs winning their division were pretty crappy. I couldn't find any MLB futures for over/under on number of games won.

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any chance you remember odds for any other teams, or how they compared in general to the ones available online?

i have a check from pinny that i haven't deposited yet. if i ask for more than 10k of that in cash, will that send up a red flag? what if i withdrew 9k before leaving and another 9k in vegas?

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I picked up a paper copy of the baseball futures and most appear to be the same as the online odds.

[Performify]

I have been involved in more than one prosecution for structuring.

at least one of those ended with jail time (it was only 30 days, but it was still jail time). That was a multiple offense case, based on tax evasion and structuring transactions to avoid taxation, so I'm not sure that you can say the jail time was just for structuring.

But regardless of Thremp's possible hyperbole, its still very good advice.

All sorts of casual people will give you the advice to illegally structure transactions ("don't withdrawal 10k or they file paperwork!") because they don't necessarily know that doing so is actually a crime. Whether or not doing so would end up in jail or a fine or nothing, its still advising someone to do something illegal...

[Homer]

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All sorts of casual people will give you the advice to illegally structure transactions ("don't withdrawal 10k or they file paperwork!")

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I will never understand this advice. They can file all the paperwork on me they want. I suppose it could increase the risk of an audit, but that doesn't phase me much (it's a hassle, nothing more).

[dankhank]

it just doesn't seem that difficult (or suspicious) to take 8-9k out at home, then take another 8-9k out in vegas if that's what you need.

especially if you only rarely withdraw money to build a cash roll, and the one you're currently growing could presumably be the last one you ever start.

[Performify]

Homer,

Structuring is a crime. It doesn't just lead to an IRS audit. It can and does culminate in prosecution which leads to fines and jail time.

Now does going in to a Vegas bank once and pulling out $9k and coming back the next day to pull out another $9k going to end up with you in jail? Probably not. Is it illegal, especially if its being done with the knowledge of the $10k BSA reporting threshold and the transactions are intentionally being structured to avoid that limit? Yes. Can committing that illegal act have repercussions? Certainly...

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"Structuring" is defined by the IRS as any effort to avoid reporting cash or other monetary transactions over $10,000 by breaking them down into smaller "related" transactions over any 12-month period (defined by USC 31, Sec. 5322-5324-Money Laundering Control Act of 1986, as amended). A structuring violation carries with it a criminal penalty with a mandatory prison term, heavy fines, and confiscation of structured funds and money "connected" to them. (A civil penalty of a $25,000 fine with confiscation of structured funds also exists.) Monetary instruments included in structuring are cash, cashier's checks, money orders, and traveler's checks.



"Structuring" is now defined as money laundering, and is a criminal offense. You can now go to jail for dealing in cash to protect your financial privacy, if the IRS thinks you're trying to hide or structure your transactions or monetary instruments. Furthermore, it's against the law for a bank or merchant to tell you that you might be violating the law. This can get him prosecuted as part of your structuring "conspiracy." If they think your behavior is suspicious, they may fill out a form on you without telling you and file it with the IRS, which will promptly audit you, or begin a criminal investigation. . . .



The average person might say, "Well, the government would never come after anyone who was totally innocent." But that's not true — he misses the point. The IRS admits that 85% of the people accused of "structuring" committed no other crime than seeking to protect their privacy. The courts have upheld numerous criminal structuring convictions for violations that concealed no criminal activity. If the government wins the conviction, the judge must sentence the criminal "to a mandatory prison sentence."


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http://www.fff.org/freedom/0394f.asp



Relevant IRS code if you're really curious:
http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/ch26s17.html

[Thremp]

Performify,

He's saying he pays his taxes and isn't worried about the man knowing who has money. There is very little reason to worry about the 10k limit.

Doing weird off round numbers just under 10k might get a SAR on its own IIRC. Doing it all the time will result in some big problems.

[soflat]

Just take the money out in one visit to the bank, whether it is a branch in Las Vegas or your hometown. It is already in Citibank, so it's not like you were hiding it; and people withdraw thousands for various reasons everyday anyways.