Curtains vs PoG

[David Ottosen]

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1. c4 e5
2. g3 Nf6
3. Bg2 c6
4. d4 exd4
5. Qxd4


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Wow, didn't know this was gonna be a blitz game... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

First comment is that exd4 was probably not that good a move. The standard play there would more likely be ...d6, as the exchange and then subsequent exchange on d8 is fine for black as in other similar positions.

As it stands now, POG has two basic plans to consider:

1) plans with d5: these will lead to the center opening and black being left with an isolated d-pawn. Having an isolated d-pawn is not the end of the world, but in this particular case, white's development is aimed specifically towards dealing with an isolated d-pawn (fianchetto'd Bishop). Such positions generally end up revolving around whether you can at some point in the future advantageously play d5-d4 (in which case you will usually either get a nice attack, or at worst, liquidate into a dry ending), or whether white will blockade it and trade down into a favorable endgame. This kind of plan leads to a more straight forward game where both side's plans are fairly clear.

2) Plans involving ...d6: in such cases, you are planning to try to just stay compact, and develop with d6, g6, Bg7, 0-0, and then elect whether to play for d5 or b5 as the position warrants. This is likely to lead to a more complex game where both sides have a variety of options on how to approach the position.

[chuckleslovakian]

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I really don't see any remotely sensible moves other than d5 and Be7. Chuckles I think you should probably just put the poll up with those two.

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Though I agree d5 looks far and away the best move, I'll probably wait until morning to put up a poll. Want to leave some time for people to discuss.

[chuckleslovakian]

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Wow, didn't know this was gonna be a blitz game... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


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It will all depend on the position/talk. I'll probably start letting moves run a full day soon.

[ChrisV]

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First comment is that exd4 was probably not that good a move. The standard play there would more likely be ...d6, as the exchange and then subsequent exchange on d8 is fine for black as in other similar positions.

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exd4 is extremely standard, I can assure you.

I don't have Chessbase but I have Googlebase. The search string "1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 c6 4. d4 exd4" gets 110 hits compared to 4 for the same string with ... d6. There are 174 hits total for the string up to White's 4th move, so ... exd4 is the response of well over half of players.

The problem with d6 imo is that White has no reason to exchange. He can just leave the d6 pawn there looking useless and clogging up Black's position, cutting off the dark squared bishop (although it's true it could be fianchettoed).

btw, does anyone have Chessbase and are we allowed to use it?

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2) Plans involving ...d6: in such cases, you are planning to try to just stay compact, and develop with d6, g6, Bg7, 0-0, and then elect whether to play for d5 or b5 as the position warrants. This is likely to lead to a more complex game where both sides have a variety of options on how to approach the position.

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I don't like this plan because the pawn will be weak on d6. Note for instance that if you imagine we fianchetto the dark square bishop and play Nbd7, the pawn is not defended at all. Meanwhile White has dominance of the light squares, so d5 will be difficult after Nc3 and maybe e4 at some point. Then White can put a rook on d1 and a bishop on f4 and the d6 pawn will be a weakness that we have to defend all game.

We should play d5 immediately while we still can. The isolated d-pawn will be OK, we'll be playing a similar position to a Tarrasch Defense against the QGD.

[chuckleslovakian]

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btw, does anyone have Chessbase and are we allowed to use it?

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Hmm, I actually have it, now I have to debate whether or not I can use it.

[xorbie]

is there something seriously wrong with ..Na6?

this should strengthen our black bishop a good deal, as well as threaten ..Nb4 so hopefully we wouldn't lose tempo, and we can also play ..Nc7 later which isn't a bad place for the knight imo.

[xorbie]

also if we play d5, doesn't 6. e4 leave us in pretty bad shape? d6 seems a lot bettet than d5.

[ChrisV]

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is there something seriously wrong with ..Na6?

this should strengthen our black bishop a good deal, as well as threaten ..Nb4 so hopefully we wouldn't lose tempo, and we can also play ..Nc7 later which isn't a bad place for the knight imo.

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Na6 is OK, although Nb4 isn't much of a threat, since after Qd1 or Qc3 the knight does nothing and can be driven back to a6 with tempo by a3 anytime. Also it suffers from the same problem as d6 - it allows Nc3 and maybe later e4, preventing us from ever playing d5. Then if we ever want our light-squared bishop to get out, we have to play d6, whereupon it can be attacked by a bishop on f4 and a rook on d1 as before.

As long as we're going to have a pawn weakness (which we are, as we're going to end up with an isolated d-pawn) let's at least get central control and piece activity to compensate. I really think it has to be d5 immediately, lest we end up with a weak, backward d-pawn and no advantages.

[ChrisV]

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also if we play d5, doesn't 6. e4 leave us in pretty bad shape? d6 seems a lot bettet than d5.

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dxe4 forces an exchange of queens (else QxQ) whereupon we have won a pawn.

Edit: by far the most common moves following d5 are 6. cxd5 cxd5 (saddling us with the isolated pawn) 7. Nf3 (open center, so preparing castling).

[xorbie]

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also if we play d5, doesn't 6. e4 leave us in pretty bad shape? d6 seems a lot bettet than d5.

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dxe4 forces an exchange of queens (else QxQ) whereupon we have won a pawn.

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i thought about this, but it seems like white could just play Bg5 and Nc3 anyway and take back the pawn and leave black with serious positional disadvantage.