Total Beginner's Question

[jfhst18]

I'm still at the stage of studying basic strategy before I plunge into live play, so please be gentle with me for asking a simple question.

The starting hand guides suggest entering a pot with 77 from EP. Fine. But what, then, does the math say to do if you get bet into? Do you fold against a raise? Two raises? Or play to look at a flop with these bottom level entering hands?

[BenA]

Really you just need to fold 77 against raise. There are exceptions, like a loose game, you are in late position, there was a raiser and 3 cold-callers, then you are getting good pot odds to play for a set + position to extract the maximum. Also, you may raise to isolate a maniac or a super poor player in a game that is otherwise tight. But really, you limp with these hands in EP in games where this a good chance you'll see a flop cheap with 4-7 players. In other words, it fares best in loose passive games. Loose agressive might be okay, as long as you'll get plenty of action (implied odds) when you make a big hand.

Edit: My response here was answering the wrong question... please dismiss and go to my new one [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[euphuistical]

[ QUOTE ]
Really you just need to fold 77 against raise. There are exceptions, like a loose game, you are in late position, there was a raiser and 3 cold-callers, then you are getting good pot odds to play for a set + position to extract the maximum. Also, you may raise to isolate a maniac or a super poor player in a game that is otherwise tight. But really, you limp with these hands in EP in games where this a good chance you'll see a flop cheap with 4-7 players. In other words, it fares best in loose passive games. Loose agressive might be okay, as long as you'll get plenty of action (implied odds) when you make a big hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was almost always correct to call a raise when it is only one more bet back to you. I supose with 77 you could do an easy fold if it is raised right after you and no one else stays in.

[Bob T.]

If you played the hand, you will be getting at least 4 to 1 when it comes back to you. See the flop, and then play poker.

If its two bets back to you, then you have to decide if you want to play, based on many are in the pot, how likely you think a cap is, and what your hand is.

You also might want to consider openraising any hand that you are going to play, and then you almost certainly have the odds to see the flop.

[BenA]

I think I misunderstood the question. I didn't realize it was if you limped and it was raised back to you. I that case, always call one more. If its 2 bets, its a matter of pot and implied odds against you hitting your set. For instance, if you limp EP, the player to your immediate left raises, its cold called by 3 and 3-bet by the button and the blinds fold... you may safely assume that all cold callers will at least call one more, so you are getting something like 13:2. Not good enough for a set, but if these people will keep giving action, may be good enough to play. However, the chance of it being capped behind you by the original raiser is a serious consideration, and this also becomes very read dependant. If its two back to me and the pot is still small and I'm OOP, I generally fold 77, but as always, there are exceptions.

[Lucky_River]

I think the same way if I entered the pott (not in the SB or BB) I don't fall against 1 raise by 2 raises it depends on the hand (77 I would fold in a normal case)
If you can play it from EP depends on the table you only go for a set valu, if the table is tight (only 1-2 players see the flop) than i wouldn't play it from EP.
Or if a maniac in that game and you are sure he would raise it and you have to call the raise also fold it.

[shark6]

Think of it this way. It's 8-1 to flop a set, so you need to be able to win 8 times the amount of money you put into the pot preflop to call. Some of this money will already be in the pot and some of it will come from other players.

If you have to call 2 SB to play 77, then you need to be able to collect 16 SB from the pot. If it's just you and a PFR and maybe 1 other player, that isn't likely to happen in limit poker in a typical hand.

[jedinemesis]

Don't forget that 77 can win without hitting a set. If I called UTG, was raised by UTG+1, and had a flop full of trash, I'd bet out. If villian is aggressive but able to fold, I might check-raise just to show even more strength, and win an extra bet.

Will