Online 5/10: TP with JTs vs. a possible flush.

[chesspain]

SB is a fairly ABC player with a feminine name who can spew more vile-sounding invectives than Hellmuth when she is outdrawn. And in fact, she has been spewing verbally, although she doesn't appear to be playing on tilt. MP is a mediocre player who tries to play well but often calls down when he should know he's beat.

Preflop: chesspain is HJ with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP calls, 1 fold, LP calls, chesspain calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players) </font>
<font color="red">SB bets,</font> 2 folds, MP calls, 1 fold, <font color="red">chesspain raises, </font>SB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.5 BB) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
<font color="red">SB bets,</font> MP calls, <font color="green">chesspain...</font>

What's my plan if I'm not folding?

[TripleH68]

If you raise the turn and SB 3-bangs it the only made hand you can beat is two pair and your outs may be compromised. Surely she is not going to re-raise with less than that and from the description of MP he will be calling your raise. So can you fold to any further aggression from SB? I think so.

I think if you're not folding, you're raising to charge the MP.

[goofball]

I think folding is pretty ok.

[Bullitos]

Folding seems good. The turn donk from sb looks dangerous but the call from mp2 also looks dangerous. You only have top pair with a mediocre kicker, you could already be dominated and behind. The pot is not too big, so I think I would fold this.

But if you are not folding I would just call down.. I can't see the advantage in raising this.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

fold or call agaisnt abc type opponent here. i don't like raising in this spot cuz you are just costing yourself more bets without even getting a chance to see a showdown.

[Haupt_234]

I would just fold in this spot chess. I can't imagine the ABC player donking into a flop bettor and flop caller w/ less than a pair of tens jack kicker.

I would also raise this up PF.

Haupt_234

[James.]

i would fold the turn. given the board sometimes i raise that flop and sometimes i wait for a safe turn. in your spot given the pot size i would usually go ahead and raise the flop as well. pf i can go both ways, raise or call.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
What's my plan if I'm not folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, too bad nobody can follow directions.

If you're not folding, you're assuming a) that MP has a big spade instead of a made flush and b) that you're going to be able to convince SB that you have a bigger flush than his. So, raise &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; call to try and get SB to fold and charge MP for drawing (but, fwiw, I also think folding is probably the best course).

[goofball]

bozlax,

No one has ever folded a 2 card flush on an unpaired board in the history of limit holdem.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
bozlax,

No one has ever folded a 2 card flush on an unpaired board in the history of limit holdem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true, goof...I have. On a hand similar to this, I had 43s in the BB against a decent player (one that would know how to pump a strong draw on the flop), and folded to his turn raise.

As I said, I think the right action is folding, but if Hero isn't going to do that his best chance to win the pot is raising. I think it came out of HEPFAP (I'm too tired to look up the ref), but the gist is that sometimes Hero's best chance of winning is by playing unreasonably (based on his hand) against a reasonable opponent, and Hero's read seems to indicate that Villan is reasonable, albeit weird.

Edit: oh, and she's sure as hell not folding if Hero doesn't raise, and I'm not feeling too sanguine about calling down with TPMK.