Mansion Deals Exact Same Hand 3 Minutes Apart (hand histories inc)

[thirteen]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, there is no way to be able to say that online poker is 100% legit. It APPEARS that it should be legit, but there is no way to know for certain.


[/ QUOTE ]

Can you be 100% sure that live poker games are legit? There's a lot of ways to cheat at live poker as well...

It's pretty much a risk you take when playing. The best you can do is be alert and get out of games that are potentially tainted.

[lotus guardian]

There's one thing I didn't understand. From the e-mails you posted here it seems like they refused to send you the hh for the hand you didn't play. Where did you get it from since you posted it in the OP? Did they finally agree to send it?

[canada_dry]

[ QUOTE ]
There's one thing I didn't understand. From the e-mails you posted here it seems like they refused to send you the hh for the hand you didn't play. Where did you get it from since you posted it in the OP? Did they finally agree to send it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey VERY GOOD POINT. I hadn't thought of that. Something smells fishy...

[thirteen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's one thing I didn't understand. From the e-mails you posted here it seems like they refused to send you the hh for the hand you didn't play. Where did you get it from since you posted it in the OP? Did they finally agree to send it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey VERY GOOD POINT. I hadn't thought of that. Something smells fishy...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have time to comb through the post now, but I though the said that it took him two weeks along with threatening to 'go public' before they sent him the second hand history...

Pretty sure he said that in a subsequent post to his original.

[MicroBob]

But now he's saying they can't give him the details of the HH. But he already has the HH.
So I don't get it either.

[Wires]

This whole story was suspicious from the get go.

Why don't things like this ever happen to respected 2p2ers with 2000+ posts. It's always some new account created for the purpose of warning us about how the game is rigged or lacks integrity.

I don't buy it.

[dguild]

[ QUOTE ]
I call BS!

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately to enable us to send you the hand history you requested we would need to access the hand histories through a members account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, they were able to dig it up for me eventually after enough pestering. Although even if this were true, they could get the hands via my username dguild, and one of the players at the other table I wasn't seated at.

ToT

[/ QUOTE ]

[MicroBob]

and the fact is, such a weird occurance COULD actually happen just by chance.
It could just be that in this case we had one guy who was at both of the tables to see it in this situation AND commented on it AND his comment got noticed by somebody else.


I think back to when I was briefly a blackjack dealer and I was dealing a game called 21+3.
It has a side-bet that pays 9:1 if you get a hand that is about a 10:1 shot to hit.

I had one guy who hit it 5 out of 6 times right when he sat down. Ended up hitting it 15 of 21 times or something ridiculous. The floor was incredulous that sombody hit it over and over as much as he did and the odds on this happening had to be pretty huge.

I've heard of a guy getting a royal-flush on caribbean stud. Deciding to play just one more hand at another table on his way out, and hitting ANOTHER royal-flush.


I mean, weird stuff DOES actually happen.

And you have thousands and thousands of internet players playing millions of hands EVERY DAY.

Yes, that's right, millions of hands every freaking day.
I think we tend to forget that because in our own narrow world we can only actually PLAY or WITNESS just a few thousand hands per day.


So something that is even a 10-million to 1 shot IS bound to come reasonably frequently actually in this crazy high-volume universe of internet-poker.

[dguild]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's one thing I didn't understand. From the e-mails you posted here it seems like they refused to send you the hh for the hand you didn't play. Where did you get it from since you posted it in the OP? Did they finally agree to send it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey VERY GOOD POINT. I hadn't thought of that. Something smells fishy...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have time to comb through the post now, but I though the said that it took him two weeks along with threatening to 'go public' before they sent him the second hand history...

Pretty sure he said that in a subsequent post to his original.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thirteen has it right, this thread title was about to be 'Mansion Poker Refuses to send hand history' until they finally relented and found the hand I was looking for. For completeness sake, here is the end of the long e-mail chain which finally resulted in them sending the hand: I have made minor edits to my e-mail in the middle about a certain program I'm not sure I'm supposed to mention:

From : <[email protected]>
Sent : Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:18 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : MANSION Poker


Go to previous message | Go to next message | Delete | Inbox

Hello Dguild,

Please find the hand history related to your email pasted below.

One thing that may help you understand the occurrence of this hand is that we deal many more hands than "brick and mortar" casinos. We have many more tables, and each table is, of course, 2-4 times faster than a live game. A typical casino poker table deals 20-30 hands per hour, while ours deal 60, 80, and even 100 or more. (Have a look at the H/hr -- hands per hour -- column in the real money lobby.)

If you're used to casino play, it's natural to need to adjust to the pace of playing online. Almost everyone finds it somewhat surreal at first. We currently deal thousands upon thousands of hands every single day. This is many hands than would be dealt in the large land based card casinos in a few months. This means that we'll deal many months worth of bad beats, months worth of straight flushes, months worth of unbelievable hands (such as "set over set over set" or in this case, ‘quads’ over a ‘full house’), all in one day. Quads losing to quads in holdem are over 5-million-to-1 occurrence, which you will probably not see in a lifetime of casino play, but it happens to someone on nearly every day in online poker. Perhaps this will give you some perspective on why things seem "different" here than in a live casinos.

We have provided you with information in past emails regarding our random shuffling technique; we run an honest game and reject any accusation that we do not. Because we've said about all that can be said on this topic, I hope you will understand if we don't take time to respond to future emails on the subject of bad beats and the randomness of our deal. We'll be happy to address any other question or concern that may arise.

Thanks for playing at MANSION.

Regards,

Craig

Poker Fraud Manager

MANSION POKER





***** Hand History for Game 3211077 *****

RingGames
Friday, July, 28, 12:18:59 EDT 2006

Table 518
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players: 9
Seat 1:ciaffone(7.50)
Seat 2:supremedicta(39.25)
Seat 3:seandamien(8.75)
Seat 4:flipside(20.00)
Seat 5anny Lewis(53.70)
Seat 6:JoshnCO(41.65)
Seat 7:Michael_Fusaro(24.50)
Seat 8:djpancho(9.50)
Seat 9:Bettheriver(18.75)

Current Number of Players: 35
Bettheriver start position: 18.75
djpancho start position: 9.50
Michael_Fusaro start position: 24.50
JoshnCO start position: 41.65
Danny Lewis start position: 53.70
flipside start position: 20.00
seandamien start position: 8.75
supremedicta start position: 39.25
ciaffone start position: 7.50
Danny Lewis posts small blind (0.25)
JoshnCO posts big blind (0.50)
ciaffone is dealt down [6c 8c]
supremedicta is dealt down [X X]
seandamien is dealt down [Td Th]
Danny Lewis is dealt down [3s 3c]
JoshnCO is dealt down [Ad Ac]
Michael_Fusaro is dealt down [X X]
djpancho is dealt down [X X]
Bettheriver is dealt down [X X]
ciaffone says: "NICE STEAL DANNY"
Michael_Fusaro raises to (1.50)
Danny Lewis says: "had pr"
ciaffone says: "lol"
djpancho calls (1.50)
Bettheriver folds
ciaffone calls (1.50)
supremedicta folds
seandamien calls (1.50)
Danny Lewis raises to (6)
JoshnCO raises to (41.65) and is all-in
Michael_Fusaro says: "lol"
Michael_Fusaro folds
djpancho folds
ciaffone calls (7.50) and is all-in
Danny Lewis says: "ah sod it ill lose but hey"
seandamien calls (8.75) and is all-in
Danny Lewis calls (41.65)
Danny Lewis is refunded (0)
flop: [4c Tc Ah]
turn: [7d]
river: [Ts]
Danny Lewis shows [3s 3c] for two pair, tens and threes
JoshnCO shows [Ad Ac] for a full house, aces full of tens
JoshnCO says: "lol"
JoshnCO wins (64.60)
seandamien shows [Td Th] for four of a kind, tens
seandamien wins (3.60)
Michael_Fusaro says: "lol"
ciaffone shows [6c 8c] for a pair of tens
supremedicta says: "wow"
seandamien wins (31.35)
rake is (3)
ciaffone end position: 0.00
supremedicta end position: 39.25
seandamien end position: 34.95
flipside end position: 20.00

[THREAD ID:1-6IGXC]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
Sent: 8/10/2006 12:56:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: RE: Your Mansion Account (Poker Issue)

Considering you've now ignored the person responsible for over 1/3 of your
poker traffic*omit*, I have no reason to believe you'll
suddenly go dig up these hand histories for me, but I will be posting a
summary of this entire situation on the 2+2 poker forums, the therx sports
betting forum, and eog sports betting forum *omit*this weekend. This is by no means a difficult request
to reassure players about your software. I have gone from being 99.9% sure
it was nothing to 30% of me thinking something actually did go on simply by
your continued refusal to provide the hand histories requested.

xxx


>From: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: RE: Your Mansion Account (Poker Issue)
>Date: 1 Aug 2006 11:08:18 +0000
>
>
>Hello dguild,
>
>
>
>
>
>Further to our recent email.
>
>
>
>We have been back in touch with our Poker Department and they assure us the
>matter was taken very seriously and our Technical Department is looking
>into the matter further.
>
>
>
>Unfortunately we will be unable to provide you with any hand histories for
>any hand in which you were not involved as MANSION are obliged to keep all
>our members information secure.
>
>
>
>The poker works on a highly sophisticated Random Number Generator (RNG) and
>is designed to deal each and every hand randomly. As there are many hands
>being dealt on the site at any one given time the randomness and actual
>possibility of two exact hands being dealt around the same time is unlikely
>but certainly not impossible.
>
>
>
>MANSION thank you once again for bringing this to our attention, we can
>assure all your comments have been noted and taken into consideration.
>
>
>
>If you have any further queries or require any assistance in the future,
>please do not hesitate to contact us again.
>
>
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>
>
>Dan

[dguild]

[ QUOTE ]
But now he's saying they can't give him the details of the HH. But he already has the HH.
So I don't get it either.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was somebody else who apparently wrote Mansion asking for the details of the two hands. I was shot down in a similar manner at first.

[ QUOTE ]
This whole story was suspicious from the get go.

Why don't things like this ever happen to respected 2p2ers with 2000+ posts. It's always some new account created for the purpose of warning us about how the game is rigged or lacks integrity.

I don't buy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was well known at the old fatbonus and it's subsequent site we moved to if anyone was familiar with the online casino scene. I've been active in online gaming for seven years now. If you don't believe any of this, by all means continue playing there or write mansion yourself and see what they say.