Internet Poker... doomed from Day 1

[PlayaHata]

With the insurgrence of Poker Bots such as WinHoldem, I am writing this post as I have come to the conclusion that Internet poker has been doomed since day 1. Moving the game from the felt tables of casino's to the internet was where it all went wrong. The problem is human nature, we are evil, cunning beings that will do anything for personal gain.

From the beginning of internet poker, people have been devising ways of beating the system. From the Card Mapper fiasco at Planet Poker, to Multi Accounts in MTT, to Team Bots Colluding through a 3rd party program on ALL major poker sites. Humans have found a way to alter and 'fix' the greatest card game in history without the need of skill that some spend years to develop. Why spend years perfecting your game when there are methods to guarantee a few thousand dollars every week?

Even programs like Poker Traker and Party Miner are just as unethical in my mind as a card mapper or poker bot. Why you might ask? Because not everyone involved in these games has the same access to these programs as you do. (I do not use ANY program) Data mining is just as evil as poker bots, IMO, because that information would not be avilable to you if you did not have a BOT collect the data for you! As well as poker tracker, you would not have that information readily available if that BOT did not collect it and transfer it to your interface. Well, you might say that these programs are readily available to anyone who googles the word poker program, and anyone can purchase it. But, when one googles poker program, one can find links to card mappers, poker bots, data trackers, and so on. What makes poker tracker ethical and poker bots unethical? What makes data mining unethical and colluding unethical? There is no difference whatsoever. If you brought a device into a casino and sat at a poker table collecting information on other players on bet amounts, frequency of aggression, and so on, I guarantee that device would be confiscated or you would be escorted out of the casino. If you brought in a device that could tell you what Player A or B does in given situations because you 'recorded' his actions in a previous hand that you were not involved in, the same outcome would occur. Having ANY device that is not available through the poker client and available to EVERY player is UNETHICAL. It is NOT a part of POKER, and the fact that poker tracker has come hand in hand with downloading a poker program is ludicris. Every player should be given the cards in front of them and the chips that they are willing to wager. THAT IS ALL. Using ANY outside device is unethical, IMHO.

The world of internet poker has made a turn for the worse. I never expressed my hatred of Poker TRacker or Data Mining until now, because people do not see the bigger picture. Internet poker, due to the acceptance of such foreign devices such as Tracker or Miner, is becoming more and more a computer based game and not a human based game. Soon, every internet player will be arming themselves with every possible device from card mappers, to bots, to trackers, to miners. If we do not take a stand somewhere, we can only allow ALL devices to be used. We must ban all devices or allow all of them to be used.

That is just my 2 cents. After this month, i will be withdrawing all my money from accounts and become a B&M player only. Good luck to all, and flame away if you must. But that is my opinion, and I hope I have made some people realize my point.

Playa

[ChoicestHops]

[ QUOTE ]
What makes poker tracker ethical and poker bots unethical?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the one sitting in front on my computer deciding on what the best appropriate action to be taken place from what my PT is displaying to me.

On the other hand, the bot user is out of his house enjoying the 24/7 money he is obtaining by doing absolutely nothing.

[PlayaHata]

but because you have that device to give you an altered edge in decision making, you are able to come at your course of action in a more simple fashion. that in itself is just as unethical as having some program make the decsiion for you.

[heater]

[ QUOTE ]
that in itself is just as unethical

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[davehwm]

I certainly believe that a program that does calculations that are impossible for humans to do, based on the current situation at the table, are unethical.

And if this includes GT+, PAHUD, whatever, then so be it.

[pokerdan1201]

I think that this topic is a massive over reaction! These pieces of software which tell the player the odds on them winning are (which are very unethical) do give an advantage, however, Poker Sites are cracking down on this and anyone who they can tell is using this software will soon face a ban. We all need to do our part and report any strange activity, if we don't report it, we WILL be stuck with it

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that this topic is a massive over reaction! These pieces of software which tell the player the odds on them winning are (which are very unethical) do give an advantage, however, Poker Sites are cracking down on this and anyone who they can tell is using this software will soon face a ban. We all need to do our part and report any strange activity, if we don't report it, we WILL be stuck with it

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking about PT?

[slim]

I disagree with you Playa. All online players can have access to PT. Just because u don't know about it or can't afford it or choose not to use it, it's not anyone else's fault. It's like if I were at B&M and I wear sunglasses because I don't want people to get reads off me or so that I can see other people without them knowing I anm studying them......is that unethical? Everyone has access to sunglasses but not everyone chooses to use them. I know LOTS of people who have PT but still cannot win because their level of understanding of the game is not high enough to allow them to make the best possible decisions even with PT stats.

I've seen people at B&M take notes with notepads and pen.....is that unethical?

By your logic, someone who has a photgraphic memory is exploiting those who do not.I don't have photographic memory and so someone who does, has information not available to me.

And the rules of online poker allows for programs like PT....so it's case closed. They don't allow datamining anymore (Party)but still allow PT so that tells u that it is not unethical. I guess it's like steroids in sports....if MLB says steroids are allowed, then it's not cheating. If they say it's not allowed and a player uses it, then it's cheating. We're just playing by the rules.

[davehwm]

[ QUOTE ]
And the rules of online poker allows for programs like PT....so it's case closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not allowed to believe something isn't ethical just because Party Poker believes it is?

[PlayaHata]

a pair of sunglasses cannot help you make an educated guess at your opponents holdings based on hands played/ aggression/ steal%, etc. although your anology is close, it does not make total sense.

PT gives the user an unfair advantage over a player not using PT. as a user you must be able to atest to the times that PT has helped your bankroll.

just because party poker says you can use PT does not make it ethical. taking note on a notepad is not allowed in casinos, but allowed on the internet. the rule 1 hand 1 person is not enforced in online poker, does it make it okay to collude with another player?