pocket 4s in a turbo

[derosnec]

opponent is terrible (in this game and on sharskscope)

he's on some kind of tilt and is raising alot pf

blinds are 25/50 and he has 900 chips and raises to 180 from the button

anyone push pocket fours here?

[psari]

It looks like he's begging for action here, generally meaning he's holding a monster, no? Based on this notion I advocate folding this. You have a nice lead here, and will find a better spot to rinse him.

psari

[Goldmund]

How is he begging for action w a raise of 3.6X the Big Blind? As to OP's question: There is no clearcut answer.

A fold isnt bad IMO, an all-in reraise isn't bad if he folds, while ure a coinflip or way behind if he calls...I would reraise if I havent repopped too often before and oppt has shown a modicum of common sense and has been raising a lot..else, just fold and move on to the next hand. Pocket fours isnt exactly the Holy Grail of HU poker...Hell its only about 11 to 9 against a random hand. Goldmund

[psari]

[ QUOTE ]
How is he begging for action w a raise of 3.6X the Big Blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

He has less than 10 BB's and is not necessarily trying to fend off action against his hand. His raise will commit him to basically any flop, so in essence I think he's committing his stack here. I don't know what limits OP plays, but from my experience in low limits, I have usually found this to mean a monster. Now I am not saying there are clearly defined rules in poker, especially heads-up, but based on the conditions of the game at that point, as well as my own experience in lower limits, this is my best guess. I am only giving my opinion, and by no means do I claim to be an expert.

psari

[thechainsaw]

not much to go on, reraise all in

[Goldmund]

No he doesnt have less than 10BB's, he's got 18 big blinds left and raises to 3.6....He's leaving plenty of room for a fold. If the raise WERE 1/3 of his stack you could count on an all-in indeed I agree. As posted here he will fold his marginal hands I think. Read marginal as: A2-A6 off, QJ, KT, K9s etc. Goldmund


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is he begging for action w a raise of 3.6X the Big Blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

He has less than 10 BB's and is not necessarily trying to fend off action against his hand. His raise will commit him to basically any flop, so in essence I think he's committing his stack here. I don't know what limits OP plays, but from my experience in low limits, I have usually found this to mean a monster. Now I am not saying there are clearly defined rules in poker, especially heads-up, but based on the conditions of the game at that point, as well as my own experience in lower limits, this is my best guess. I am only giving my opinion, and by no means do I claim to be an expert.

psari

[/ QUOTE ]

[psari]

[ QUOTE ]
No he doesnt have less than 10BB's, he's got 18 big blinds left and raises to 3.6

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake Goldmund, I apologize. I don't know why I was so sure that I was reading the blinds as 50/100. As that is not the case I do agree with your original analysis.

psari

[jay_shark]

I worked it out and believe now that pushing is better but if villian had around 800 chips then stop and go would be the best choice . .

If you push all in and he calls , you will be at best a coin flip . Lets say you have a 50 % chance of winning the flip .

Ev= 900*0.5-850*0.5= 25 . That is , you win half of your bb back .

Now if you use the stop and go play watch what happens to your Ev .

You call an additional 130 which means there is 360 in the pot and villian has 720 chips remaining .

Ev(s and g | he folds ) = 360*(2/3)=240 Since if he doesn't hit and he has two overcards , he doesn't have the correct odds to continue .

Ev(s and g | he calls ) = 850*1/3 = 283.33 (283>240)

I've also simplified the problem because there will be times when you hit your set on the flop when villian calls , and there will be times when you suck out when you have the worst of it .

My intuition was slightly off but the decision is still a close one .

[Goldmund]

Your calculation is off I think Jay, let me summarize: Let's agree the all-in preflop is ev-neutral if villain has overcards, so we don't have to bother with that. That leads to the conclusion that whether we take it or not is simply a matter of taste.

Putting it real simple whether to stop-and-go or not comes down to this, disregarding set and re-suck scenarios: 1/3 of the time you're gonna lose 18 big blinds in the stop-and-go betting sequence and 2/3 of the time you're gonna win the 3.6 big blinds Villain put in preflop. Thats the net result of the stop-and-go. I dont see any doubt that the all-in is preferable preflop if Villain will call his whole stack with two overcards. One of us is missing something! I think it's you :-) Goldmund



[ QUOTE ]
I worked it out and believe now that pushing is better but if villian had around 800 chips then stop and go would be the best choice . .

If you push all in and he calls , you will be at best a coin flip . Lets say you have a 50 % chance of winning the flip .

Ev= 900*0.5-850*0.5= 25 . That is , you win half of your bb back .

Now if you use the stop and go play watch what happens to your Ev .

You call an additional 130 which means there is 360 in the pot and villian has 720 chips remaining .

Ev(s and g | he folds ) = 360*(2/3)=240 Since if he doesn't hit and he has two overcards , he doesn't have the correct odds to continue .

Ev(s and g | he calls ) = 850*1/3 = 283.33 (283>240)

I've also simplified the problem because there will be times when you hit your set on the flop when villian calls , and there will be times when you suck out when you have the worst of it .

My intuition was slightly off but the decision is still a close one .

[/ QUOTE ]

[jay_shark]

Actually we shouldn't be disregarding the times when you suck out . It will affect out decisions since this may occur if you decide to push all in pre-flop .

Also you will lose 17 BB's because the BB(50) is not yours .

You will lose 17 *1/3 = 5.6 BB's
You will win 3.6+1 =4.6*2/3 = 3.06

Also , about 12 % of the time you hit a set and 8 % of the time , you will hit by the turn and river . This means 20 % of the time you will win 18(1/3)=6 bb's

6*0.2 = 1.2

Now as you can see , the decision is only off by about 1 BB .