Kings vs paired door card

[frappeboy]

This is a hand I played last night.. All the players are very loose. I'll post my comments later.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.70 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.85 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (7.85 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

River - (11.85 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___folds

Total pot: (14.85 BB)

[jon_1van]

Meh,
You probably won't be making a big mistake if you fold or call on 5th. The pot is bigish, and you're getting multiway action. However, because you're getting multiway action your hopes for Ks up aren't spectacular (I'm guessing you put seat 2 on a wider range than just trip 3s)


I'm not a real big fan of the call because you don't see any other 3s. I don't think the call is a serious mistake, but I don't think its best.

Once you get a 2nd pair you CANNOT fold 6th because now you have 7 outs to beat trips (KJJJJTT)

On 7th the pot is big, you may win, call.

[Jeffage]

5th is whatever to me. I call here too since two pair is likely here and you have a gutshot as well as other drawing opportunities. I consider sixth street to be an automatic raise - try to get heads-up with the monkey and give yourself a better chance of winning the hand. Your board will likely protect you from being reraised. Just my take.

Jeff

[SimonAllan]

If you want to play the hand, I think you need to try to narrow the field somewhere.

I think it's probably spewing, but has anyone considered a raise on 5th. It could well get the pot heads-up, and may persuade seat 2 to check 6th, if he reads you for a made straight or if he doesn't have the trips

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
but has anyone considered a raise on 5th

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes me cringe.

[SimonAllan]

I'm not saying that I would raise, but I think you can argue that it's a reasonable move. If you call 5th, you'll probably call 6th, and the river with any improvement (most likely to kings up). If you raise 5th, which is likely to eliminate most of the field, you may well get to check behind on sixth (unless you catch a jack or king), so going to showdown would be no more expensive than in the call/call/call line.

I just don't like the passive line, given that you are more likely to make kings up than trip kings or the straight, and kings up is very often a second-best hand in this sort of pot, whether seat 2 has trips or not.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise 5th, which is likely to eliminate most of the field

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Frappe did say they were all very loose. So anybody with a decent draw is sticking around regardless.

[Mac]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
but has anyone considered a raise on 5th

This makes me cringe.


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I've got to develop some lower gears, but I like a raise on 6th. I would have also raised fifth [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
if the raise would eliminate stragglers (frappes read was that the table was very loose, so I guess it's debatable). If we're reraised, then we know where we stand.

Two pair for villain with something like buried Jacks is very likely (although the river bet does indicate some real strength).

- Mac

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have also raised fifth

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you raise 5th when you don't even have 2 pair?

You don't even have a hand to protect.

[frappeboy]

First off, I think 3rd and 4th are pretty standard.

5th Street is a tough decision. I hate playing against a paired door card, but I have a totally live gutshot straight, and a 3 flush to go along with the pair of kings. I considered raising at this point, but I figured my opponents behind me don't have anything really menacing. I really don't mind pairs smaller than kings coming in behind me, or even a gutshot isn't too bad. Hands like a 4 straight or a 4 flush aren't going anywhere if I raise anyhow. Since I'm most likely behind (although I have no clue how far behind), I decided to just call and let the "loose" players behind me give me better odds if seat 2 does have trips.

6th street I make Kings up. This is where I strongly considered raising, but at this point there were 2 factors that told me to just call here. First of all seat 2 is still betting even though my board is VERY scary. This signals to me that he has real strength. Next I looked at the players behind me, both have weak looking boards. Seat 6 likely has no draw whatsoever and is probably drawing to trips only. Seat 1 does have a 3 straight showing but his straight cards are quite dead. Notice I have two 10s, and a 9. Also on the lower end there has been two 5s and two 4s exposed. So I don't know what he has, but I know he's probably drawing pretty slim too. So on 6th I decided to just call again.

The river is tough because the 4s are still betting but I figured I just had to pay off here.