World Series Mayhem...2 Live hands

[jlocdog]

Live at Harvey's Lake Tahoe. Blinds are 5-10 with no cap.

The World Series Circuit events are in town and with it has brought alot of action and a bunch of monkeys.

Hand 1: There is a live $20 straddle in effect from a player who sat down about an orbit and a half ago. I have played with him numerous times and view his game to be LAG but on the more controled side. The game had turned passive for the past two rounds or so and he said he wanted to spark up the action again. He has about $2600 in front of him (He bought in for $2500).

One guy limped and I raise to $100 with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from limpers immediate left from MP. Table folds around to straddler who calls fairly quickly. Limper folds.

With $235 in the pot now the flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Straddler checks and I bet $200. He calls again fairly quickly. Turn card is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He checks.

Am I in a WA/WB situation here or is a turn bet mandatory?
How much to bet if that is your preffered line?
Can this hand take any heat like a C/R?
Can we ever find a check behind here or is a free card too dangerous?


Hand 2: I am in Hijak with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and limp behind 3 other limpers. BB checks. $55 in the pot. Flop comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB (stack size is $1400) leads for $40. Next guy (Stack size is $2100) raises to $120. Folded to me. I call (Stack size is $3500). BB also calls. Turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks. EP thinks for a second and checks as well. I check behind. River is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks and EP now bets out $400 into a $415 pot.

What is your play?
Comments on the line I took would be much appreciated as well.....

[creedofhubris]

both hands look ok so far.

hand 1, if you check turn you'll be facing a big bet on the river 90% of the time, be sure to call unless it's a heart, in which case think about it. you really don't want to be check/raised here, so i like the check for pot control reasons.

hand 2, folding the flop is also to be considered. checking the turn is standard, bet/fold would be better if you didn't have the king of diamonds in your hand. on the river, up to you, he's repping the ace pretty strongly.

[pfkaok]

I think hand 1 depends on how loose, and how aggressive this guy really is.

A turn bet is certainlly not mandatory. If he's a good LAG, and won't pay you off w/ a weaker K or flush draw, and will occasionally CR bluff or semibluff, but isn't out of control, then I think you check. Since you said he's a controlled LAG, then you probably can't call his CR, and then you'd probably only bet the turn if he's likely to pay you off with a weaker hand.

Also, his tendencies on the river are very important when you decide whether to check. If he's the type to often "sense weakness" when you check the turn, and will usually fire a river bet, then checking to induce the river bluff is very viable. That way you don't have to worry about giving a free card b/c he'll be charging himself retroactively for drawing on the river.

Another thing to consider is if he'll call more loosely on the river after the turn was checked. Lots of times you'll get a weaker K to call a river bet when they'd fold the turn.


On hand 2 I really don't like the flop call. your hand is not very good here, and somebody led into a 6 way pot, AND it was raised. You only have TP pretty good kicker and backdoor 2nd nut flush draw. I'd get out.

But once you're on the river, you need some type of read, or feel for EP in order to decide what to do. If he never makes big river bluffs, easy fold. If he never bets big on the river w/ the nuts, easy call.


btw... you playing in the NLHE tourney today?

[donkey]

hand 1:
with the hearts out, i'd bet about 450. if checkraised i'd fold fast. pretty scary board to be bluff checkraisin the turn unless he views you as weak/tight and thinks you'll laydown AA. most rivers i'd check behind but i'd bet a few non-scary river cards for value.

if the flop was rainbow it's much more WA/WB and a turn check is pretty standard.


hand 2:
fold the flop

[jlocdog]

In hand 1 my thought process on pot control was just that versus this particular opponent. My hand could not stand a C/R and so I thought a check behind would allow me some options. As is poker though there are + and - to every move and I guess I am just trying to decide which move has the most upside compared to the move with the worst downside.

In hand 2 the flop call is definetly suspect but I figured if with my position I could possibly move at this pot if a total blank fell or at the very least check behind if they were planning a move and get 5 cards for a moderate fee.

As for the tournament, I can't play today unfortunately. I have to deal myself. Possibly will play live afterwards though. The games have been exceptional for the past week.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the tournament, I can't play today unfortunately. I have to deal myself. Possibly will play live afterwards though. The games have been exceptional for the past week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, you're that guy who was sitting across the table from me in the $3/5 NL game, right? was it josh?

If that wasn't you, sorry, but I think i might have a decent read here based on your post, and what i saw of who I think was you playing in the $3/5 game at Harvey's.




Oh. okay, if the 2nd hand was from $3/5, then that was me who bet the river. I'm not sure if it was that hand, but it looks similar, however, you got the action wrong if it was.

If however, it was the hand i'm thinking of, then i don't like your flop, or preflop call, but the river call was definately good vs. me.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 2 the flop call is definetly suspect but I figured if with my position I could possibly move at this pot if a total blank fell or at the very least check behind if they were planning a move and get 5 cards for a moderate fee

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I might actually bet this turn in hand 2 since they both checked. I know you only wanted to bet a blank one, but since you only have a draw to 2nd nuts on a 4 flush, the draw isn't worth all that much... unless you think its very likely that somebody was checking the flush planning hoping to get a CR in. A turn bet might be a decent semibluff, since you could possibly fold out KQ, or a weak 2 pair, but if they call with those, you'll likely have outs. and also, a decnet sized bet might force the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] to fold if somebody has that.

I don't know though, check is probably not bad, you should at least have stongly considered a turn bet IMO, and you had no reads in the post, so its hard to say what play is best.

[flawless_victory]

hand 1 looks like mostly like a way ahead situation on the turn... i think u need to bet here for value, most likely hands for him would be flush draws and 88-JJ. if u CRed u make a decision.
i would recommend a smaller flop bet w/ this situation (board, stax).

hand 2, fold the flop or pump it up, coldcalling there sucks! i am usually mucking...
as for the river, call this BS. that bet is huge, if this guy had the nuts he made it on fourth but checked it like a freak (AdKo is poss i guess?)... i would call him. this is assuming your read is that he is capable of bluffing here at a scare card, else thered be nothing to discuss about the river.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

Your hand is huge in hand one. I think a LAG type player is often going to make a big pot on the flop with a set here for balancing reasons. So 3/4 the turn and plan on also value betting the river. You could also opt for the more controlled/safe play of checking behind and calling a river bet, or betting if checked to. I dunno, I like betting the turn here... If you get raised you are in a pickle, but there are lots of convenient hands he can put you on and justify a thin call-down.

Hand 2, if you dont fold the flop, fold the river.

-Jason

[Hay Guyz]

Hand 1: I think you're ahead here, and you should bet enough to make it incorrect to call with a flush draw. The next most likely hand, in my opinion, is a weaker king or pocket pair.
Hand 2: It's hard to put the guy on AdKo since he was EP and limped with it. Unless that's normal for your table, I'd think your flush is good here.