in over my head

[HOWMANY]

the problem is that we dont know if villain is going to give up on the flop, turn or river with his bluffs and we just leave ourselves guessing. i dont know exactly how many bets will go in ahead vs behind but the certain thing is that more bets will go in when behind and our opponent has pretty solid control over when that will happen.

this can be easily turned into an "i know he knows i know" leveling thing where he knows you must have A high to c/c flop. thus if he bets turn he either beats A high or expects us to fold it. thus if we call turn we are announcing we are showdown bound so if he fires river again we must conclude that he expects us to call which means we should fold. but perhaps he knows this so his range also includes bluffs. blah blah blah.

the simple and best way to play it is fold now. flop sucks for our hand and allows him to outplay us easily. i can't imagine calling on this flop. whether we put in .5, 1.5 or 2.5 bets when ahead, the certain thing is that we will put in 2.5 when behind when showdown bound. not gonna waste time to stove but im sure that this hand is not looking good on this flop.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem is that we dont know if villain is going to give up on the flop, turn or river with his bluffs and we just leave ourselves guessing. i dont know exactly how many bets will go in ahead vs behind but the certain thing is that more bets will go in when behind and our opponent has pretty solid control over when that will happen.

this can be easily turned into an "i know he knows i know" leveling thing where he knows you must have A high to c/c flop. thus if he bets turn he either beats A high or expects us to fold it. thus if we call turn we are announcing we are showdown bound so if he fires river again we must conclude that he expects us to call which means we should fold. but perhaps he knows this so his range also includes bluffs. blah blah blah.

the simple and best way to play it is fold now. flop sucks for our hand and allows him to outplay us easily. i can't imagine calling on this flop. whether we put in .5, 1.5 or 2.5 bets when ahead, the certain thing is that we will put in 2.5 when behind when showdown bound. not gonna waste time to stove but im sure that this hand is not looking good on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[Mr.Busto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the problem is that we dont know if villain is going to give up on the flop, turn or river with his bluffs and we just leave ourselves guessing. i dont know exactly how many bets will go in ahead vs behind but the certain thing is that more bets will go in when behind and our opponent has pretty solid control over when that will happen.

this can be easily turned into an "i know he knows i know" leveling thing where he knows you must have A high to c/c flop. thus if he bets turn he either beats A high or expects us to fold it. thus if we call turn we are announcing we are showdown bound so if he fires river again we must conclude that he expects us to call which means we should fold. but perhaps he knows this so his range also includes bluffs. blah blah blah.

the simple and best way to play it is fold now. flop sucks for our hand and allows him to outplay us easily. i can't imagine calling on this flop. whether we put in .5, 1.5 or 2.5 bets when ahead, the certain thing is that we will put in 2.5 when behind when showdown bound. not gonna waste time to stove but im sure that this hand is not looking good on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[/ QUOTE ]

sick

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem is that we dont know if villain is going to give up on the flop, turn or river with his bluffs and we just leave ourselves guessing. i dont know exactly how many bets will go in ahead vs behind but the certain thing is that more bets will go in when behind and our opponent has pretty solid control over when that will happen.

this can be easily turned into an "i know he knows i know" leveling thing where he knows you must have A high to c/c flop. thus if he bets turn he either beats A high or expects us to fold it. thus if we call turn we are announcing we are showdown bound so if he fires river again we must conclude that he expects us to call which means we should fold. but perhaps he knows this so his range also includes bluffs. blah blah blah.

the simple and best way to play it is fold now. flop sucks for our hand and allows him to outplay us easily. i can't imagine calling on this flop. whether we put in .5, 1.5 or 2.5 bets when ahead, the certain thing is that we will put in 2.5 when behind when showdown bound. not gonna waste time to stove but im sure that this hand is not looking good on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um check call the flop with hands other than ace high.

[HOWMANY]

i was gonna mention that but didnt really feel like it bc just getting straight value with pairs or folds when we have gutshots with flop c/r is probably a lot better than the tiny value of disguising flop c/c with A high/bottom pair on this sort of flop.

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
i was gonna mention that but didnt really feel like it bc just getting straight value with pairs or folds when we have gutshots with flop c/r is probably a lot better than the tiny value of disguising flop c/c with A high/bottom pair on this sort of flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok what do you do when it comes 8-5-2 then with A7 in same situation?

[HOWMANY]

c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[Sailboats]

wow great topic and posts. Good stuff.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone making sense! lol at c/f. And you call yourselves poo-flingers.

[mtgordon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
c/r. sometimes 4bet if they 3bet, sometimes call down, sometimes call and fold later. i would sometimes call on that flop though because i would actually call with an 8 or 5 there bc people are much more willing to fire on the turn after that flop and walk into a c/r. im also much more likely to c/c a draw on that flop in order to c/r turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Finally, someone making sense! lol at c/f. And you call yourselves poo-flingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmmmm, I'm pretty sure he's not referring to the original hand but rather the post immediately above his. Therefore the consensus is still to c/f the original hand. So much for flinging poo.