Hands to choose to play against AAxx?

[ChuckyB]

If the stacks are deep enough, just about anything.

In general I'd like anything that's not a pair and doesn't use an ace to complete it (ie. prefer 9876 over QJT9)

I like rundowns (9876, 9875, T986, etc), an ace suited with 3 connecting (A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]76, or with 1-gap: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]87). Even a hand like J975 can do very well with sufficient dead money in the pot. Clearly suited and double-suited increase the chances that I'll play. (example stolen from Rolf Slotboom: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a 53:47 underdog to 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

And if I'm fairly sure villain has AAxx, I don't mind playing OOP if I can get all my money in on the flop.

And to add to what a poster before me wrote...if I can get AI with an 9876ds-type hand against multiple players (both with AAxx or AAxx vs. KKxx), I love it.

[RoundTower]

having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[Elrazor]

[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree - you are about 7-1 to flop a set with something like QQxx, and from some math i believe buzz did its about the same to flop a much weaker 2 pair with say 5678. Of course you are going to have some kind of straight potential with the rundown, but i much prefer the set

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree - you are about 7-1 to flop a set with something like QQxx, and from some math i believe buzz did its about the same to flop a much weaker 2 pair with say 5678. Of course you are going to have some kind of straight potential with the rundown, but i much prefer the set

[/ QUOTE ]


A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8765n = 57:43

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 53:47

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 59:41

AAKTn v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 49.8: 50.2

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = 69:32

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 65:35

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 55:45

--------
A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 54:46

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 66:34

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 64:36

----------
AAxx v. QQxx = 69:31
AAxx v. 9876n = 59:41
AAxx v. QQxxss = 68:32
AAxx v. QQxxds = 64:36


These are only HU. When a third player gets involved (all stacks being equal) under pairs go in the crapper. The top pair and rundown aren't hurt as badly

AAxx v. QQxx v. 9876ss = 42:25:33
AAxx v. QQxxss v. 9876ss = 41:27:32
AAxx v. QQxxds v. 9876ss = 39:30:31

[grizy]

This really doesn't have much to do with how the hand is going to play out on the flop and how much profit you'll actually make.

[emil3000]

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $70</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $230</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $990</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2970, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button is all-in $2643</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: $2643 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $2970

Can I fold this preflop against certain aces?

[Hattifnatt]

emil, I fold in spots like this on regular basis. I would prolly even fold it in position unless you are like 300bb+ deep and/or he is quite donkish and will go broke with his aces regardless of board.

[grizy]

If you're "certain" you're up against aces, yeah.

EDIT: didn't see the reraise was so big.

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, one big difference for example is that if you flop something like a pair+gutshot with a pairless hand you are often a favourite vs a dry overpair.

example:

pokenum -o as ad 3c 2h - ks jd 6c 4h -- 7s 8d jc
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 7s Jc 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As 3c Ad 2h 401 48.90 419 51.10 0 0.00 0.489
Ks 6c Jd 4h 419 51.10 401 48.90 0 0.00 0.511

[grizy]

You'll find yourself coolered more often than you think if you overvalue rundown hands.

And well, you sure paid a big price for a 51/49 favorite. not my idea of profit. sorry.