let's get the facts straight: poker makes money

[RR]

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Poker doesn't make money. Fact.

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Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds.

Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No.

But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal?

I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you.

It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense...

Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable.

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I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit.

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Read a few issues of Convenience Store News and you'll discover that's EXACTLY where they make money, not on gas.

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I was going to point this out. Not sure if it is still the case, but those places make basically nothing on gas (I once worked as a manager in a place that lost 1 cent on every gallon of gas for a while).

[psandman]

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Poker doesn't make money. Fact.

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Really? What do you base this fact on? I've seen financial reports that indicate that poker makes a pretty consistent and steady ROI for the casinos, even after overhead and re-appropriation of funds.

Again, per sq/ft does it make as much as some other things? No.

But is it a draw? Does it bring people to the casino? Does it add to the casino's overall appeal?

I just don't get the arguement that poker in casinos is not a good/moneymaking idea. The numbers don't lie, first off. Second off, you can't discount the lure of the game, and what other "bells and whistles" casinos throw at you.

It works, right? Trust me when I say this... and this should smack you in the face with common sense...

Casinos are not in business because they waste time, money, or space with things that do not make them more profitable.

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I think in reality, poker is similar to the casinos pool, tommy bahamas store, health club, and fake diamond store. Are they important to have? Yes they are ammenities which are nice to have at a casino, an added bonus. But in reality, do you think they make up more than 3% of their bottom line? Prob not. Chevron gas stations are prob not making a ton of money off of the $.87 beef jerky and tic tacs sitting the counter, but people enjoy them, so there they sit.

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Read a few issues of Convenience Store News and you'll discover that's EXACTLY where they make money, not on gas.

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I was going to point this out. Not sure if it is still the case, but those places make basically nothing on gas (I once worked as a manager in a place that lost 1 cent on every gallon of gas for a while).

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Keep in mind that the dynamic of Las Vegas casinos have changed. It used to be that shows and restaurants and hotel rooms were all secondary to gaming. Nowadays they are a primary revenue source and continue to grow.

[daveT]

What everyone is forgetting is that the modern customer doesn't go to Vegas just to pull a slot handle.

Some people go to play poker and nothing else. Some people go for the shows and nothing else. The casinos are going to do everything in their power to lock up every revenue stream possible. No one can predict what the future will hold. Before Thorpe, Blackjack was a parlor game, less popular than Faro.

It behooves the casinos to cater to the largest customer base possible. Poker rooms would not be maintained or opened if they were not self-sustaining and profitable.

[Spiffysean]

Does anyone have any Economics background? Why can't Vegas apply the simple laws of supply and demand to poker rooms?

For instance, if there was a demand for more slot machines because people were 3-deep waiting for a pull, Vegas would make room for more slot machines. Right now there is a demand for poker, so Vegas makes room for it.

Would Vegas rather be making more of a profit on slots and tables games versus poker? Probably. However, most rooms in Vegas are smart enough to realize that a small piece of the pie is better than no pie at all.

Management in Vegas wouldn't go to the bathroom if they thought it cost them money, and they certainly wouldn't open up losing operations.

[ClarkNasty]

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Why can't Vegas apply the simple laws of supply and demand to poker rooms?


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Vegas did. Rooms popped up everywhere for a long time. Now you see the smallest/worst rooms closing, and more will follow as poker finds a new equilibrium post-fad.

[Spiffysean]

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Why can't Vegas apply the simple laws of supply and demand to poker rooms?


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Vegas did. Rooms popped up everywhere for a long time. Now you see the smallest/worst rooms closing, and more will follow as poker finds a new equilibrium post-fad.

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Exactly, and well said. God knows we've been to rooms in Vegas (the Tropicana, etc) that do not even TRY with the room that they have, and I'm sure that they will close in time. However, what we have ALSO seen is that a wellrun poker room IS a good moneymaking draw for a casino. The work that the Bellagio, Venetian, and Wynn have done will ensure that although poker might decline in the future... they will be the ones to turn the light out when the boom is over.

There are too many successful business models for a room out there now. The bottom line is - if a casino wants to make a committment to run a good room, it's STILL (and probably forever will be) possible to do.