HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[gordo16]

so youre recommending felting top set on monotone boards every time you get c/r on the flop in 2bet pots pre? am I reading that correctly?

[cmyr]

wtih 100bb in a 3bet pot, hu, I would have no problem at all felting top set on a monotone flop, against an aggressive thinking opponent. Against a very straight-forward opponent I'd have no problem taking a free card sometimes, and if I was check/called on the flop I'd take a free look on the turn quite often.

In a 3bet pot, folding top set to a c/r for 100bb hu would be a pure error against a good player (although how we, on the button, have the betting lead in a 3bet pot is kind of curious... complete-bet-raise pf?) since the c/r's range, at least, should occasionally include sets and naked nut blockers.

checking behind would be fine in this particular hypothetical, since it's what we'd probably often do with a decent range. Otherwise I think we're getting a bit off track, and I'm getting a bit confused as to what exactly the question is.


okay so i guess you were using "2bet pot" to mean "not 3bet pot", as opposed to "a pot that was bet and raised". Here as well I'd be fine felting top set against any opponent I thought could c/r bluff or c/r a set at least occasionally.

[TimberBee]

I'm not usually asking for this, but in this hand, I'm really curious about results... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[eule]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not usually asking for this, but in this hand, I'm really curious about results... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

im really interested too, couldnt find this one in his blog, even tho he posted a lot of hands vs gordo

[RoundTower]

I disagree with almost everything pete wrote, that he can expect you to have AA more often than the nut flush based on your flop action. I don't think you should always bet/3bet the flop with AA here, and I certainly don't like it if you don't tend to play the nut flush equally fast. Also, there are way more combos of Kcxc than of AAxx, and an aggressive player is opening most of them on the button. Also, AA is more likely to take a free card on the turn.

I think it's a clear call. You are priced in or very close if he always has a flush, so if he ever has less it becomes a must call.

[CrushinFelt]

I think a c/r on the turn after calling his flop raise is the best way to rep the nuts and probably how I would have played this hand. Snd if he's in a stubborn mood or tilting and still calls you down you have outs.

[gordo16]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a c/r on the turn after calling his flop raise is the best way to rep the nuts and probably how I would have played this hand. Snd if he's in a stubborn mood or tilting and still calls you down you have outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

gonna be hard for me to c/r turn when im in position....

for everyone talking about how bad brian tilts, etc I think you guys underestimate him quite a bit. while he does tilt a bit, he far from "has issues" with it. he's an extremely disciplined player who very rarely lets emotions affect his play aside from perhaps loosening up his range a bit when running bad...

RoundTower; I gotta say I agree with your post on this one. I didn't really understand where Pete was coming from with his adivce either... and the play was IMO justified because both Brian and I know that I play the nut flush (and usually only the nut flush) this way... I just overplayed a semi-bluff/bet for value in this spot.



RESULTS:

I don't feel like finding the HH but I called the turn (a pretty obvious call IMO) and Brian wound up showing TTxx with little clubs, the river blanked, and he wound up taking down a large pot with his aggresive play. Later, he obviously just said that he was tilting and that I was reading too far into the hand when I told him that my play was bothering me, so I just wanted to post this to make sure that I had put him on the correct range on the turn.

Thanks for the responses.

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with almost everything pete wrote, that he can expect you to have AA more often than the nut flush based on your flop action. I don't think you should always bet/3bet the flop with AA here, and I certainly don't like it if you don't tend to play the nut flush equally fast. Also, there are way more combos of Kcxc than of AAxx, and an aggressive player is opening most of them on the button. Also, AA is more likely to take a free card on the turn.

I think it's a clear call. You are priced in or very close if he always has a flush, so if he ever has less it becomes a must call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Upon further review, Gordo was getting a better price than I thought, so I definitely agree that you're priced in to call, since aba only has to have junk or a lower set 5% of the time or so to make it profitable.

The card combinations are very close, and by my rough math, post-flop play being equal, gordo is more likely to have AAxx if he raises his Kcxcxx hands any less than ~85% of the time.

As for the subjective stuff, I don't know, it still just feels to me like aba was waiting for a safe turn to shove his smaller flush, expecting to be ahead. And yes, given the action, I expect aba to think gordo is more likely to be semi-bluffing top set than to be fast-playing the nuts, even though that shouldn't be the case if gordo is playing game-theoretically perfect. But I've never played aba so what do I know.

edit: absolutely not trying to brag, and I could still be way off base about the hand, but I'd just like to note that I didn't see gordo's results before posting this.