gettin silly again

[Unknown Soldier]

completely disagree, checking KQ is pretty bad there, as is raising KJ on the river. you can rep a T better on the 853 (well a little bit better anyway) as you are more likely to cbet the K high

it sucks on either board though

[jlocdog]

I frequently check behind with TP when it is a high one or my kicker is above my pair, ie. KQ on a K53 board or AJ on a J82 board. I think mixing this into my play has been very good for my game. It allows me to not get exploited when I don't think a c-bet is optimal nor do I want to c/r because i may either want to attempt to play a small pot OR a big one and a c/r may just end the hand too early. Also, I don't agree OP can rep a T here with any credence. Unless his image is one of being extremely weak tight. Doesn't seem that way.

I am going to say that this bluff was successful and villain had diamonds or some crap like 67.

[Unknown Soldier]

more likely to have T on the 8 high board, but still unlikely

as a default play checking back KQ on a K53 board is bad. You're losing value, simple as that. I could see a checking being good sometimes, but usually a bet will be better.

[jlocdog]

Last I will comment on this since we have reached an impasse. But do know that checking back KQ on a K53 board is not bad. If one continues to always fall back on default plans, one will always play hands in the same manner. Then ones defaults are what is going to cost him money.

Thinking outside the box and being unorthodox in spots like these will do wonders for your image and make you appear to be mixing up your play alot when really you are just capitalizing on a great situation. It will also give much more credibility to your c-bets when you have Q9s on a 853 board.

[nazahl]

[ QUOTE ]
Last I will comment on this since we have reached an impasse. But do know that checking back KQ on a K53 board is not bad. If one continues to always fall back on default plans, one will always play hands in the same manner. Then ones defaults are what is going to cost him money.

Thinking outside the box and being unorthodox in spots like these will do wonders for your image and make you appear to be mixing up your play alot when really you are just capitalizing on a great situation. It will also give much more credibility to your c-bets when you have Q9s on a 853 board.

[/ QUOTE ]

coach me?

villain thought it over for a few and folded btw

[holdme]

raise smaller

[Unknown Soldier]

betting is usually better then checking. balancing is obv important (in some cases!), but betting should be the default play. We can agree on that, right? Because the next part is important. Checking only for the sake of mixing it up is bad, it's irrational play and should be avoided. There should be a reason to your unorthodox play. The dynamics of the game, your image and the specific tendencies could well make a check good in a particular spot, but blindly mashing buttons ("mixing it up") is bad. If you have a rational thought process to your game not only can you have a nice mixed strategy to throw off your opponents, but you will be doing it at the correct times.

[jlocdog]

Obviously you haven't read what I have said or atleast what is implied. He is mixing up his play to
a)make his c-bets less exploitable,
b)induce bets from hands that would normally check,
c)give off a unorthodox image of play which in turn makes it hard to get bluffed/thin valued,
d)have more control over the size of the pots you enter because your c-bet % will now decrease if you so choose,
e)allow for more aggression on later streets because of these smaller pots
f)enable you to utilize the donk if you so choose because of your now unorthodox image,
g)blah blah blah....

No one is jut 'mixing up their play' because a book says to do so. There are obvious reasons one would do so. The examples I gave are just a few in which it may be a good time for it. When the hand is in your favor is always best rather then trying to manufacture a play just for the sake of mixing it up.

[members_only]

[ QUOTE ]
Last I will comment on this since we have reached an impasse. But do know that checking back KQ on a K53 board is not bad. If one continues to always fall back on default plans, one will always play hands in the same manner. Then ones defaults are what is going to cost him money.

Thinking outside the box and being unorthodox in spots like these will do wonders for your image and make you appear to be mixing up your play alot when really you are just capitalizing on a great situation. It will also give much more credibility to your c-bets when you have Q9s on a 853 board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a question... why will checking behind KQ on a K-high board give more credibility to your c-bets with air? If anything, I'd have thought that if villain sees you check behind a decent but not great hand he will think your c-betting range is somewhat polarized and since you have air much more often than a really strong hand, he will play back at you more.

[jlocdog]

Sh58,

[ QUOTE ]
to that guy who likes checking behind with KQ on a K53 board, this is terrible. we are cbetting this board every time we miss, so we have to Cbet it every time we hit or we become very easy to play agaisnt

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be c-betting this flop every time you miss. I am not. I don't auto c-bet any board just for the sake of the board texture alone. My opponent impacts my c-bets far more then anything else.

members_only,

[ QUOTE ]
Just a question... why will checking behind KQ on a K-high board give more credibility to your c-bets with air? If anything, I'd have thought that if villain sees you check behind a decent but not great hand he will think your c-betting range is somewhat polarized and since you have air much more often than a really strong hand, he will play back at you more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the times I choose not to c-bet when I hit the flop fairly good will often result in one of two way. Either it goes to showdown and he sees my hand thus making my c-bets very tough to read as well as my non c-bets. Or secondly, I end up taking the pot down on the turn/river without showdown and leave my opponent completely confused on WTF I could possibly have had. Now this line sets up a nice bluff/float for later.

And what exactly am I polarizing? If anything I think we do the exact opposite. Remember, we are not always checking behind with TPGK. There are just certaiin spots where by doing this every once in a while keeps certain opponents on their toes and makes you harder to read....not easier. As always this play is situational. The hand I described against the opponent stated seems like a good spot for it. As said before, mix up your play when the cards are in your favor. This will allow you to set up that bluff or atleast that image of being able to pull one off. Doing this the other way (bluffing to set up some FPS) is not the way to go. Thus mixing up your play for a reason...