let's get the facts straight: poker makes money

[EWillers]

I would like to preface my post by admitting that all my analysis is simply opinion/rumour. I don't have any "actual facts" relating to the profitability of poker roooms. I've heard rumours that such facts are readily apparent and accessible, but once again, that's only what I've heard.

I'm pretty sure there are poker rooms that make money. There are probably some poker rooms that don't. I don't know.

I think a helpful way to look at this issue is to consider what the answer of casino executives would be to the following question: Would you perfer a world with no poker?

I would imagine the reasons supporting the existence of poker would fall almost entirely on an "increasing the size of the pie" argument.

It seems clear that the most popular form of gambling on TV these days is poker. Big poker tournaments like the WSOP bring in thousands of players to a property/area and I'm sure many of these players play out in the pit. The prevalence of hold'em (and other forms of gambling) on TV creates more gamblers thus increasing the bottom line for casinos.

Nevertheless, I would still belive that nearly all casino executives would rather have a world with no poker. I've played B%M poker pretty regularly for a while now. When I play, I like to think of myself as the house. I try to only play at tables where I have a +EV. When my opponents play poorly, I benifit. It's just like when anybody decides to play a house game. They are taking a certain % the worst of it as payment to the casino in exchange for the pleasure of playing the game.

I've always considered one of the worst nightmares of a casino is the large pit player who converts to poker. Take a guy who is willing to lose 10k over a weekend out in the pit. He'll give 100s of k in action at BJ, craps, whatever. And on each of those transactions the house will earn a percentage . If he converts to poker and plays at a game where he plays poorly in comparision to his opponents, then his opponents will earn that percentage. The house in that case is essentially left with a flat rate--the rake/time charge .

I heard a story 3 or 4 years ago while playing at the Mirage. Somebody was sayin' that Steve Wynn had done an interview for a newspaper or somethin' shortly after the Mirage first opened. The reporter asked Wynn if he had any plans for expanding the poker room. Wynn replied, "I didn't build the Mirage so that Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese could become millionaries."

[Adebisi]

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I've always considered one of the worst nightmares of a casino is the large pit player who converts to poker. Take a guy who is willing to lose 10k over a weekend out in the pit. He'll give 100s of k in action at BJ, craps, whatever. And on each of those transactions the house will earn a percentage . If he converts to poker and plays at a game where he plays poorly in comparision to his opponents, then his opponents will earn that percentage. The house in that case is essentially left with a flat rate--the rake/time charge .


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The opposite goes too. Random mid-high stakes poker pros getting shitfaced and dropping 20-30k on blackjack or craps on a Saturday night probably isn't a rare occurance. Something that brings kids in their 20s who probably like to party and have wads of cash into the casino can't be all bad. Also, for BIG pit gamblers, there generally won't be a poker game big enough to pique their interest. A guy that plays $50,000 a hand baccarat isn't going to give a [censored] about the 400/800 mixed game going in the poker room.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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I've always considered one of the worst nightmares of a casino is the large pit player who converts to poker. Take a guy who is willing to lose 10k over a weekend out in the pit. He'll give 100s of k in action at BJ, craps, whatever. And on each of those transactions the house will earn a percentage . If he converts to poker and plays at a game where he plays poorly in comparision to his opponents, then his opponents will earn that percentage. The house in that case is essentially left with a flat rate--the rake/time charge .

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I've often disagreed with your logic (or perhaps your presentation) but you hit the nail on the head here. Add in the bad manners of the typical casino poker grinder and it's not hard to see why poker could be once again pushed aside if (or when) it losses popularity.

~ Rick