AA waits till turn

[numbnuts007]

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think about what BB would donk and act accordingly. I wouldn't be to happy about my hand here against a decent player. Twopair, straight, SD, FD and sets is in his range. If I raise it's because I hope BB reraises and pushes UTG+1 out of the pot. But I would just call flop and reevaluate turn. I don't think I'll raise anywhere in this hand if the board doesn't pair or if I hit a set.

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wow, really? do others agree with this?

[Burnsabre]

raise now, this is some smallish pair/draw alot that will freeze up to about half the deck on the turn.

[thepizzlefosho]

I'm raising the flop because there are a lot of cards that drop on the turn that make me not as happy with my hand/ not want to be calling turn 3-bets. Plus they probably have crap and I have no problem with fast playing flops with the best hand.

[johnnyrocket]

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I'm raising the flop because there are a lot of cards that drop on the turn that make me not as happy with my hand/ not want to be calling turn 3-bets. Plus they probably have crap and I have no problem with fast playing flops with the best hand.

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yes but they will both almost certainly call another turn bet, its not protecting our hand, just juicing up the pot for the turn

[Wolfram]

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I'm raising the flop because there are a lot of cards that drop on the turn that make me not as happy with my hand/ not want to be calling turn 3-bets. Plus they probably have crap and I have no problem with fast playing flops with the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but they will both almost certainly call another turn bet, its not protecting our hand, just juicing up the pot for the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
- The pot is medium sized, so I think you should be more interested in betting for value than for protection.
- No amount of bets will protect you from good draws (they always have the odds to call). So just charge them the max while you're pretty sure your equity is good.
- If juicing the pot now induces villain to make a bad call on the turn with a 2,3,4 or 5 outer then that's fine.

[bobhalford]

Your opponents don't know you have AA. I would raise, as there are many cards on the turn that will dissuade BB from betting again. Even if utg+1 folded the flop, I wouldn't wait for the turn. But since he called, get the money in while it's hot. You can't guarantee a turn bet from BB nor a call from the hijack.

[thepizzlefosho]

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I'm raising the flop because there are a lot of cards that drop on the turn that make me not as happy with my hand/ not want to be calling turn 3-bets. Plus they probably have crap and I have no problem with fast playing flops with the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes but they will both almost certainly call another turn bet, its not protecting our hand, just juicing up the pot for the turn

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who ever said I was protecting my hand (although I can be against 2-5 outers)? I'm raising for pure value.

[acehole60]

You make good points and my default is definitely to raise the flop. But my reasoning was like this: I expect BB to bet again on a lot of turn cards. Maybe not a spade 4 or 5 unless he hit a draw. I'm not worried about UTG+1. BB's range is a lot of one pair hands, straight draws (including gutshots) and flush draws - of course there's sets and two pair as well (I discount these a bit because he didn't go for the CR on the drawy board to force out UTG+1).
Against this range my equity changes dramatically on the turn, so when a non scare card falls (almost every scare card for my opponent is a scare card for me too) and BB leads out I get to raise two players with the improved equity. If a scare card hits and he still bets I can call down now that my equity is even lower still.

I think this is a reasonable thought process but is my logic flawed anywhere? Or is it just better to get the bets in now?

[acehole60]

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think about what BB would donk and act accordingly. I wouldn't be to happy about my hand here against a decent player. Twopair, straight, SD, FD and sets is in his range. If I raise it's because I hope BB reraises and pushes UTG+1 out of the pot. But I would just call flop and reevaluate turn. I don't think I'll raise anywhere in this hand if the board doesn't pair or if I hit a set.

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wow, really? do others agree with this?

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Definitely not. I have the best hand an overwhelming amount of the time. I think my dillemma is whether to get bets in on the flop or on most turn cards.

[Gurravasa]

Without a read that BB is a very bad player I think we must give some credit to his donk here. He knows that no overcards will fold and still he donks. When UTG+1 calls we have a overpair in a multiwaypot with a drawy board. A raise on the flop gives no protection it just builds the pot and I don't think we have equity to raise for value on this flop even if we have the best hand at the moment. Also UTG+1 will call 1 SB for sure if we raise and then we just drag him deeper in this pot. If we let BB bet again on turn UTG+1 will have worse odds if he's on a draw. Depending on what card comes on turn and how the action goes I can see a raise on the turn but there is a lot of turncards that you don't want to see.

Another benefit of not raising flop is that if BB is bluffing or betting a pair less than TP we kill the action. If he has a good hand (better than our one-pair) why give him the chance to c/r on turn? When you have aces on a board like this and ther is a bet and a call in front of you you must think a little longer than that you have aces and must raise. What can they have? Can you protect your hand? How do you extract value from worse hand and don't loose to much against better hands, How do you play turn if a scary card comes etc etc. An overpair is a strong hand but in a multiway hand on a drawy flop with action up front you must start playing poker.