guy claims he knows a pokerstars programmer that rigged the rng

[syncmaster]

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Why would you read past the first sentence.

"I am a good poker player who does very well in live games. In online poker though, I have lost money and suffered bad beats where the odds must have been over 500:1. This has happend numberous times."

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Because its so good! The guy is taking facts from a ytmnd page!

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Ok, I admit it. I kept reading and after further review LOL.

[syncmaster]

On a serious note, this is really not good. Is this what the conscious believes after the "BAN" and after the AP "rigging"? Its like a highschool rumor, its only going to get worse. Don't get me wrong, half these guys come off like complete morons, but these are the ones we want in our games.

[Daddy Warbucks]

You ever notice how many fish whine about a site being rigged, but never get up from the table until they bust? Online poker isn't in any danger.

[Vertical Taco]

[gtpitch]

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You ever notice how many fish whine about a site being rigged, but never get up from the table until they bust? Online poker isn't in any danger.

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How many times have we seen it....

fish1: this [censored] is so rigged
Dealer: fish1 rebuys for $3 and has 1500 chips added.

[bystander]

I am a programmer and I can tell you it is far easier to rig poker software than it is to create software to play poker from scratch.
So if anything the argument - it would cost a lot - and is real hard to do is out the window.

The way the programmer said he did it also make sense. Something I would have to do as a programmer is make sure that in the long run the cards are not distributed abnormally i.e too many pocket aces getting cracked, because then anyone can use poker tracking tools and prove its rigged.
On the other hand, I have no idea how a programmer can screw it up to throw a fifth ace. (And release it to public too!)
The really good way to rig the site is to assign numeric values based on their wins/losses/playing style/newbie etc and say the higher number is favored in the deal because he recently joined and has not won much. Based on that the deal can be adjusted on the river /turn. Also settings can control which tables are rigged and which are not. Sometimes too, higher limit tables will not be rigged because firstly, they are very few newbies there and second, the pros might pick up on it.

the net result of a well rigged site: the very good players will still win though they might still suffer a few bad beats from newbies.
The newbies /bad players will last a little longer and will be encouraged.
However, the average/not so good players will now be losing players because all they needed was a little bit of variance to keep them in debt anyway.
thus, most of the rigged site stories will come from average players only since they are the ones the most victimized. Some winning players might discover this but most good players don't play at micro/medium and so may never notice this.
As a programmer, I see nothing extraordinary with this - but as a poker player it is disturbing to know it can be done <i>undetected!</i>

[pipermax]

[ QUOTE ]
I am a programmer and I can tell you it is far easier to rig poker software than it is to create software to play poker from scratch.
So if anything the argument - it would cost a lot - and is real hard to do is out the window.

The way the programmer said he did it also make sense. Something I would have to do as a programmer is make sure that in the long run the cards are not distributed abnormally i.e too many pocket aces getting cracked, because then anyone can use poker tracking tools and prove its rigged.
On the other hand, I have no idea how a programmer can screw it up to throw a fifth ace. (And release it to public too!)
The really good way to rig the site is to assign numeric values based on their wins/losses/playing style/newbie etc and say the higher number is favored in the deal because he recently joined and has not won much. Based on that the deal can be adjusted on the river /turn. Also settings can control which tables are rigged and which are not. Sometimes too, higher limit tables will not be rigged because firstly, they are very few newbies there and second, the pros might pick up on it.

the net result of a well rigged site: the very good players will still win though they might still suffer a few bad beats from newbies.
The newbies /bad players will last a little longer and will be encouraged.
However, the average/not so good players will now be losing players because all they needed was a little bit of variance to keep them in debt anyway.
thus, most of the rigged site stories will come from average players only since they are the ones the most victimized. Some winning players might discover this but most good players don't play at micro/medium and so may never notice this.
As a programmer, I see nothing extraordinary with this - but as a poker player it is disturbing to know it can be done <i>undetected!</i>

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Found this to be a pretty reasonable and thoughtful response on a subject that usually draws massive amounts of flame from true believers on both sides of the "online poker is rigged" argument.

Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

[lurker1022]

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Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

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LOL really you wear your tinfoil to the local b&m's then too? ever heard of a gaming commission?

[CORed]

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Although I'm not a programmer it wouldn't seem that it would be any harder for a site to program hand results as Bystander suggested than it would be for IGT to program the RNG on individual video poker machines to give varying degrees of advantage to the casino as they have been doing for years.

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The house advantage of video poker machines is set by varying the pay table, not by rigging the RNG. The casino has an advantage because the payouts for the various hands are less than the true odds of making that hand. It also helps that most players don't play correct strategy.

[AKA Squared]

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As a programmer, I see nothing extraordinary with this - but as a poker player it is disturbing to know it can be done <i>undetected!</i>

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If it's rigged the way alleged, by definition hands are winning at different rates than should ordinarily be the case. How would that not show up in a statistical analysis?

Off the top of my head, three things to test for: 1) Percent of each complete five-card hand, from the worst possible in that kind of poker up to a royal flush (or A234 Badugi), that loses, splits, and wins the pot at showdown. 2) Same test for just the two-card starting hand in the hold 'em games. 3) For just the winning hands, which percent held up from the starting hand and which hit on the flop, turn, or river?