Am I ahead here ever?

[fees]

I think this is a pretty easy turn fold, best case senario he has QQ or KK with the spade or a chop. fwiw I think I play the same, RR pre is a disaster waiting to happen

[JammyDodga]

You guys do realise that UTG has only 1730 left after his raise, and there's 450 in the pot after you call right?

How is this not a push pre?

also, raise 700 pre and fold is sick as you would be getting more than 2:1 on his 4-bet.

[JustChip]

[ QUOTE ]
You guys do realise that UTG has only 1730 left after his raise, and there's 450 in the pot after you call right?

How is this not a push pre?

also, raise 700 pre and fold is sick as you would be getting more than 2:1 on his 4-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

my bad i checked heros stack forgot to look at villains, push pre sounds good to me

[Suited76]

For those of you advocating a push preflop, what range are you putting villain on?

Unless we have some read that says otherwise, this is a big hand the vast majority of the time from my experience. A min raise UTG from a stack less than 10X. I'd rather call his all in than push over the top in this spot.

If it's TT+ & AK then we're 30/70 against that range and not getting close to the odds we need.

Even if we assign him any pair & AQ+ then our equity is still only 40/60 and I can't imagine his range is anywhere near that wide.

It's tough to assign him a range that makes this +EV and we have no fold equity, so why the push?

[JammyDodga]

Im putting on a much wider range than this, you see min-raise UTG with a whole lot of [censored] like j10suited, kq, low pairs, hands that want to see a flop before committing the rest of their chips.

If you putting him on exactly that tight a range after one bet, then you should be folding this OOP, I mean, what flop are you looking for to continue? KJ10?

[Suited76]

I've seen lots of crazy raises from UTG, but I don't see them from a stack that's less than 10X.

Some stupid laggy big stack with 40X isn't the same as a shortstack minraising UTG. He's open pushing most of the junk you talk about and minraising his monsters.

I'm not saying that's an absolute and some small % of the time he'll have something ridiculous, but I think this range should be very tight for an avg player in this spot.

[JammyDodga]

He's got 19BB not 10... that makes a big difference imo.

10bb, I agree with you completely, but here, he could be doing this with a hand that "too good to fold" but not good enough to really commit to without seeing a flop. Of course, he's doing this with monsters sometimes too.

[pig]

Anyone else not like a go and go here?
Repop to say 500 600 pre,
and push any flop?
On further reflection push pre is better.

[Suited76]

You are correct sir. I thought the BB was T200 for some reason. My apologies.