50/100 party hand

[HiatusOver]

I want all experts in succession who said fold to get back in this thread. Its almost for sure u have to continue here. There is no real reason to put anyone on a flush draw. A cap for value and to disguise your hand makes more sense to me than a fold (although I think call is best so u keep everyone in)

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
I want all experts in succession who said fold to get back in this thread. Its almost for sure u have to continue here. There is no real reason to put anyone on a flush draw. A cap for value and to disguise your hand makes more sense to me than a fold (although I think call is best so u keep everyone in)

[/ QUOTE ]

Math pls.

[HiatusOver]

I dont really think its close so I dont see why I have to do the math. You guys are the one who want to fold a big draw here, I would think u would have some idea of how many times the flush draw is out there and how often that has to happen to turn it into a fold.

I do agree that it comes down to a math problem but I would be kind of suprised if my variables make it close.

Maybe I will attempt it later I dunno

[Turning Stone Pro]

I stand behind my original post. I lead on the flop, and check-call the turn if the turn doesnt help me. No way do i put folks on a diamond draw on the flop (remember, I am acting first).

I like my hand, I'm going to put $ in the pot. It's really that simple. I rather start the betting than be sitting around calling 2 or 3 bets cold when it comes back to me on the flop after checking. The main reason for this is that folks will know for sure what I have when this happens.

I bet the flop, and try to make a move on the turn if I hit. Not playing this hand with this flop, as is recommended by some highly respected posters, is incorrect in my humble opinion.

TSP

[HiatusOver]

Good post TSP. Its an interesting idea to lead here, but the position of the pre-flop raise in my opinions makes a lead here worse than other options. U leading and the PF raiser clearing the field is a horrible result for u. You dont want anyone folding on this flop.

What do u think about that? Dont u want to trap the field in here for atleast one bet on the flop when your equity should be huge instead of getting HU and being a dog?

[Turning Stone Pro]

I definately see your point. My experience indicates that if you have 3 cold callers after an early raise pre-flop (which is unusual in and of itself), they are not all going to muck if it is two small bets to them with this type of flop. What did these cold callers have preflop? I'd have to put them on medium pairs or various high cards, maybe suited connectors (hopefully not diamonds).

I do see your point, and I think the flop lead would be significantly better if you had 3 limpers and a late raise PF.

The only thing I know for sure is that I would never lay this hand down on the flop from the BB -- if I ever would, I would never have called with it PF in the first place.

TSP

[catlover]

Well I'm guessing it's about 50/50 you are up against a higher flush draw. So that means you effectively have 8 outs -- three straight outs, the straight flush out, and eight flush outs which are good half the time. Effectively you are about as likely to win with this hand as you are with an open ended straight draw. Which means you should call.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I'm guessing it's about 50/50 you are up against a higher flush draw. So that means you effectively have 8 outs -- three straight outs, the straight flush out, and eight flush outs which are good half the time. Effectively you are about as likely to win with this hand as you are with an open ended straight draw. Which means you should call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're up against a higher draw, count on losing at least 2 BB when you hit, but once you call 3 cold here you kill all of your action if you aren't. Your implied odds suck so I think this is a pass.

Edit: I guess you can cap to disguise it and maybe be sure to fold something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Kx but it sure feels like spewing [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[tgoodwin]

[ QUOTE ]
I do see your point, and I think the flop lead would be significantly better if you had 3 limpers and a late raise PF.

The only thing I know for sure is that I would never lay this hand down on the flop from the BB -- if I ever would, I would never have called with it PF in the first place.

TSP

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY!! GOOD CALL TSP...IF YOURE THE TYP E OF PLAYER WHO SHYS AWAY FROM A DRAW LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU MAY BE AGAINST A BETTER DRAW THE FOLD THE SMALL SUITED CARDS PREFLOP...BEST LINE IS TO CHECK CALL AS THE ACTION WENT

[DavidC]

If it's not too much trouble, why do you guys think that the three-bettor could have diamonds... it's a pretty uncommon play for that hand at the limits that I play.