Does the PPA need 2+2?

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's not get carried away by asserting that this forum deserves as much credit for the action taken for the MA proposed legislation getting as much attention as it has as the PPA in actually acting on the legislation. You see what I mean?

Let's give credit where credit is due.



[/ QUOTE ]

This forum continues to exist are the main place of congregration for those deeply committed to the "protection" of poker. This is NOT because Mason and 2+2 planned it that way because of great business foresight, nor is it even a desire of 2+2 LLC to lead the effort.

This forum has it's percieved value because the PPA forum is a tomb. I can and have generated move views in the PPA forum in a day than has been seen in the previous month, but it isn't a hundredeth of what the impact is here.

TE is sadly mistaken if he feels he can resurect his following here there in any time soon. He's tried in the past.

The specifics of how the actions that lead to the "prompting" of the PPA into action as you say are unimportant to the news story and would indeed detract from the story.

But lets be honest, right now the PPA needs all the help it can get. 6 months from now this may or may not be the case. But it is true today. IMO the PPA is not strong enough today to take the position it has in this simple matter of desigination of TE as affiliated as associated with the PPA board.

But as a look at the future concering the issues invoved I do understand the strategy of making a stand here. I just don't agree with it.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
TE is sadly mistaken if he feels he can resurect his following here there in any time soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think PPA needs a viable, uncensored forum for free discussion of ideas, but I could not care less about a "following". I just want to play poker online. Unfortunately, lately I've been spending more time with this political BS than I have on working on the only thing in this that I actually care about. I'll cease that and will stick to my passion -- explicitly legal online poker.

[ QUOTE ]
He's tried in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incorrect.

Why do you mention my name in all of your posts? I really don't like dealing with all this internal political stuff. I just want to play poker. Can you please express your opinion without mentioning me? I just don't have the time or the inclination to respond to your numerous wordy posts. It takes time from what's important.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TE is sadly mistaken if he feels he can resurect his following here there in any time soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think PPA needs a viable, uncensored forum for free discussion of ideas, but I could not care less about a "following". I just want to play poker online. Unfortunately, lately I've been spending more time with this political BS than I have on working on the only thing in this that I actually care about. I'll cease that and will stick to my passion -- explicitly legal online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am truly sorry that I do not do a better job of communicating my opinions. I have spoke to John about this issue of a better PPA forum many times, and as recently as today spoke to Bryan about it. We agree much more than you seem to understand from our conversations in this imperfect medium.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's tried in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incorrect.

Why do you mention my name in all of your posts? I really don't like dealing with all this internal political stuff. I just want to play poker. Can you please express your opinion without mentioning me? I just don't have the time or the inclination to respond to your numerous wordy posts. It takes time from what's important.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have made no attempt to help the PPA forum become more useful? You have not stated nor at least suggested that you might leave this forum?

The PPA not only needs a more viable forum, it also needs a better from of non-public communications with the broader membership and grassroots ativists. John and I spoke of this issue in July or August. We wouldn't be having this discussion in an open forum had any actions been taken sooner. Yes I know that again the PPA is not made of money and John and the consultants are really busy, but that repeated answer is beging to wear thin.

To me, you seem to show an sttitude that has grown with your increased "stature" both here and in the PPA ogranization, that you less and less need nor should be subject to critism.

You have regardless if you want it or not have made yourself the issue too often IMO. But, as I've said many times we are too very different people.

I do not criticise in any way to try to tear anything down nor diminish the value of the efforts, dedication, nor passion expended. I value the PPA as much as anyone IMO. I will continue to "push" the PPA to strive to do better no matter my position in or out of the organization.

John identified a number of issues he planned on addressing when he "took over" the PPA. Internal communication was at the top of that list. Your appointment was to a large degree was an attempt to quash the problems here. You yourself have stated that you represent this forum to the PPA not the other way around.

When you become as is sometimes the case, perhaps in preception only, an abject apologist for the PPA and it's decisions you "take sides" and the wrong one from your stated goals and intentions.

The PPA doesn't have a viable form of effective communications with its membership let alone the broader on-line poker community. This forum is prehaps the single most viable from of on-line communications with the core of people dedicated to legislative action that currently exists. Worse yet the PPA has pretty much ignored any chances of reaching the other half of self identified US poker players.

To often as evidenced by many actions both past present and from the future plans I am aware of the PPA has contunied to be happy gathering the "low hanging fruit".

Making a semi-stand on this stupid little issue, from my perspective, shows a continued mis-understanding of reality or an overblown sence of the srength of the "power" of the PPA.

So continue to view me as more critical than I feel I am. My own importance in this effort is ultimately unimportant to me and the overall sucess or failure. But from having gone out from behind the monitor, and from having lead a few sucessful political efforts, let alone from my own opinion of interpersonal relationships I can tell you we all need to work much harder. Perhaps myself the most.

I may have a completely cracked "crystal ball", but my instincts have served me well in my life. I will also suggest that while I only claim, like you, to only be expressing my own personal opinions, I can claim that I am not the only one that feels many of these issues are important. How many others their are I make no claim to know. I do suggest that very little effort has been focused on the 1/2 of the poker world that doesn't play online by the PPA to date.

So please do not take offense from my "pushing" the PPA in general and my "tweaking" of you personally. You for a long time were and will continue to be one of the most "visible" faces of the PPA on-line. With that comes a great deal of responsibility. I am sorry to say, much more than you seem to realize.

I am trully sorry that you feel you have had to spend too much time of this BS. But IMO as much as you feel this was forced upon you, I see it was as much your own making.

Again you deserve all the respect in the world for another thankless position as much as anyone else who has taken on anyone of the various thankless positions in this group effort.

But just as no organization can rest on it's laurels neither can you. I am sorry to say that the advice you have received to get a "thicker" skin have been largely ignored at your own peril.

You may feel I commened you or damn you with faint praise, but I feel I speak to you as a friend who wishes you nothing but more sucess, not less.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He's tried in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's incorrect.

Why do you mention my name in all of your posts? I really don't like dealing with all this internal political stuff. I just want to play poker. Can you please express your opinion without mentioning me? I just don't have the time or the inclination to respond to your numerous wordy posts. It takes time from what's important.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have made no attempt to help the PPA forum become more useful? You have not stated nor at least suggested that you might leave this forum?

The PPA not only needs a more viable forum, it also needs a better from of non-public communications with the broader membership and grassroots ativists.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I've made attempts to help make the PPA forum more useful. In my mind, that's a major issue with PPA right now. That's not the same as saying I've "tried in the past".

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When you become as is sometimes the case, perhaps in preception only, an abject apologist for the PPA and it's decisions you "take sides" and the wrong one from your stated goals and intentions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I merely explained the rationale behind some PPA choices. You have a different vision for PPA than many of us do. You stated yourself that your life won't change without online poker. Mine will. Drastically. Sometimes it seems like you're here to play politics. The rest of us want to play poker.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]

I merely explained the rationale behind some PPA choices. You have a different vision for PPA than many of us do. You stated yourself that your life won't change without online poker. Mine will. Drastically. Sometimes it seems like you're here to play politics. The rest of us want to play poker.

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Well between the two I am much better at politics than I am at poker. I apologize again if my true meaning is not clear. Removing poker from my life would indeed would leave a big hole. Perhaps I could fill that with live poker, perhaps not. But I do not derive a large part of my income from poker. Poker is a passion not an income source for me. Sorry to be crass, but as I explaned to Tuff, I do not need an additional source of income. Fair or not I can and do as my passions dictate. There is very little that would dramatically affect my life that I do not control other than the health of my family.


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I merely explained the rationale behind some PPA choices. You have a different vision for PPA than many of us do. You stated yourself that your life won't change without online poker. Mine will. Drastically. Sometimes it seems like you're here to play politics. The rest of us want to play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well between the two I am much better at politics than I am at poker. I apologize again if my true meaning is not clear. Removing poker from my life would indeed would leave a big hole. Perhaps I could fill that with live poker, perhaps not. But I do not derive a large part of my income from poker. Poker is a passion not an income source for me. Sorry to be crass, but as I explaned to Tuff, I do not need an additional source of income. Fair or not I can and do as my passions dictate. There is very little that would dramatically affect my life that I do not control other than the health of my family.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't need an additional source of income either, but online poker has enabled me to have more financial freedom than I'd have without. I'm passionate about us having the freedom to play. If we lose this right, I think you'll agree we'll all be affected, as we're all affected whenever government takes yet another right from us.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
If we lose this right, I think you'll agree we'll all be affected, as we're all affected whenever government takes yet another right from us.

[/ QUOTE ]

110%!


D$D

[Robin Foolz]

last time i checked the ppa forums were a ghostown. they need a viable medium to spread their message in and 2+2 seems to be that medium atm. until they get their forums going, they need 2+2. since some of ppa is already here, and this is a private forum, they need to follow forum rules and be careful about not pissing off the owners. i don't understand the big deal. 2+2 has said ppa is welcomed here, as long as they follow some posting guidelines laid out. nothing unreasonable about that. this is, after all, 2+2's forum. ppa needs 2+2 atm greatly because of 2+2 active readership; i hope they realize this and just keep doing their thing here.

[Robin Foolz]

btw, i hold the engineer in very high esteem. i personally find the ppa ineffective in everything from legislation lobbying to garnering support, while the engineer i find very effective at least in rallying and making people aware about the relevant issues. it suck's he's getting lumped in and is being criticized for ppa's past and current ineptitudes when imo te has done more as an individual in helping our cause than the whole ppa has since their very existence. i hope te keeps on posting here to the degree we've grown accustomed to.