The hardest spot in micro stakes poker? JJ from the SB

[anthb7210p]

You always have to lead this flop if your going to 3bet. If you check it villan will steal with ATC - its so expoitable. If you get raised or turn blanks only then can u fold / checkfold. This you much less readable and you will def get paid off on your AA AK's more often. Also, either calling preflop or 3betting are both OK.

[Check_The_Nuts]

I only glanced over what gelford said but I basically agree with him.

I don't like check/calling the flop. I would either just bet or check/fold.

[orange]

I typically bet. As i would many hands here.

[gregorio]

3bet JJ PF not manditory. I was just watching a Stox video where he says he coldcalls jacks in position or out of position because it plays good post flop and you want to play medium sized pots with it and you don't want the fold equity, you want some value. He basically says what Matrix says.

[matrix]

so I am playing these days on a new windows box and I don't have any of my old db's to hand - but during last nights session this hand came up and I played it like this.

Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $53.02
CO: $69.28
BTN: $77.97
Hero (SB): $43.50
BB: $24.43
UTG: $101.20

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $1.50</font>, CO calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, 2 folds, CO calls $5.50, BTN folds

Flop: ($17.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $9</font>, CO folds

Results: $17.50 Pot

so far CO here is the table sucker and I have been tangling with him a little this is the first hand I've 3bet at this table. (I've been sitting for ~3 orbits or so and yes I tried to reload preflop but was too late) The rest of the players at the table are playing pretty nitty and leaching CO dry slowly but surely.

I 3bet my JJ here from the small blind cos I am very confident CO will call at least with a hand I am ahead of and I wants value. I'm also confident that everyone else has a OK but not great hand and won't want to play a big pot - my raise here is a kind of squeeze and I am planning to CB flop if CO calls and take it away from him usually or get mad value cos he's the kind of player that will call if he hits any kind of pair.

Obv here I hit a golden flop but note my flop CB size.(if I'd had 100bb I'd have bet $10 here) Also my preflop 3bet is a little smaller than pot - but it's large enough to get the job done (fold everyone except CO) and it's small enough so that I can bet/fold a nasty flop if he pushes OTT of my raise (I don't think even this guy is going to bluff push many flops where I'm ahead) and if I like the flop and he calls/raises my flop bet we are playing for stacks.

I think if I flat call here preflop I am playing for set value alone - as this hand turned out I probably would have got paid off if I flat call preflop as one of the 4 players is likely to have an Ace, but most often I miss my set so I decided that 3betting preflop here was better.

I amjust trying to illustrate here that altho I am in the "flatcalling JJ in the SB is standard camp" that I don't always flat preflop - when I have a reason to I deviate from my standard line. You should too.

We can't ever ALWAYS take a certain line in a situation. I think that in some of my posts in this thread what I am trying to say is that the leaks the SPEW that some people have is where they autopilot play their standard lines without thinking. They always CB 2/3 - 3/4 pot on flops without thinking about what will happen later on in the hand - or later on in other hands vs the same players.

Perhaps my play in this hand isn't optimal - but I thought out a plan of attack - I tried to think about what I wanted to manipulate the villains into doing, and then I made what I thought was the best play. I am happy with my play here.

I am a little rusty at this poker stuff having barely played for 3 months (life beats) - and this thread has really made me think so I am enjoying the discussion.

[munkey]

1st I agree JJ OOP in 3bet pot is one hardest situations -AQ too IMHO -but I flat AQ out SB more often as it dominates LP ranges alot.

I 3bet preflop almost always - as corsakh says its protection vs overcards - I flat it out SB if villan will float me more often -as 1 overcard flops can become expensive if vilian will call with QJo and stack off on qxx flop -basically if I have low FE (preflop or on flop) and want to get to showdown with a small pot.

I agree with carniehobo about fcbet size - it though this was standard -se AJ's foundation post.

I also don't agree with 1/2 potting flop in 3bet pot -vs fish they will often float any piece or draw - I bet 2/3 pot and then can PSB shove turn or bet decent amt then put remainder in on river.

[munkey]

In that hand Matrix JJJ in 3bet pot - I have a noobish question I don't actually know the correct answer too.

What's the best 3bet size out SB/BB given x limpers?
Is there a standard like 4xbb+ 1limper?

FWIW I tend to do what you did but make it tad more.

I'm just asking because JJ multiway OOP sucks so either we think a decent 3bet will get it HU and a cbet has a decent chance of sucess but if some of those callers call our 3bet then isn't it better to flat out the SB then and play a small pot?