I just played some 25nl full ring on party

[Isura]

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Good lag play begins with a good dump...

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I read the whole session. You seemed to play pretty normal to me... You lost your stack trying to bluff early in the session. Stacked tptk with an overpair. Made a few positional raises. What did I miss? Calling that reraise OOP with 86o is bad, especially since you check/folded an all unders flop. I'm not trying to bash on you here, I'm sure you are a solid winner at 1/2. But I think a post like this gives the wrong impression of what constitutes good play. Lag != good necessarily, and the newer players will have a hard time distinguishing the two. Perhaps if you posted your PT database from when you crushed nl25 (before you moved up), it would help the new players a lot more.

[BukNaked36]

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[ QUOTE ]

Good lag play begins with a good dump...

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I read the whole session. You seemed to play pretty normal to me... You lost your stack trying to bluff early in the session. Stacked tptk with an overpair. Made a few positional raises. What did I miss? Calling that reraise OOP with 86o is bad, especially since you check/folded an all unders flop. I'm not trying to bash on you here, I'm sure you are a solid winner at 1/2. But I think a post like this gives the wrong impression of what constitutes good play. Lag != good necessarily, and the newer players will have a hard time distinguishing the two. Perhaps if you posted your PT database from when you crushed nl25 (before you moved up), it would help the new players a lot more.

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He's essentially even until the last two hands. Which is kind of sad considering he previously stacked 2 people with overpairs earlier. Then 2nd to last hand, he's behind to an overpair and has $10 left when he catches a 2 outer for trip nines on the river then wins a stack.

Last hand, he's way behind until he catches an inside straight draw on the river and some moron gives up his stack from what was a $5 pot.

I'm sure he can beat $25NL, but this session definitely isn't a demonstration on how to do it.

[FreakDaddy]

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He's essentially even until the last two hands. Which is kind of sad considering he previously stacked 2 people with overpairs earlier. Then 2nd to last hand, he's behind to an overpair and has $10 left when he catches a 2 outer for trip nines on the river then wins a stack.

Last hand, he's way behind until he catches an inside straight draw on the river and some moron gives up his stack from what was a $5 pot.

I'm sure he can beat $25NL, but this session definitely isn't a demonstration on how to do it.

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I don't think you understand what I'm saying really. Lag play = the end result. I've had sessions that were longer that I've stacked a lot more people. Really I didn't hit any great flops or get in situations where I outflopped an overpair, which is where I stack off these guys everytime.

As far as the second to last hand. I had a decent feeling that I was beat on the turn here. BUT this opponent had been playing back at me with Ace high and other hands. When I called this bet I thought he pushed, I'm not sure exactely what happened. Also, he played this hand bad AND I had 5 outs not 2 [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Good lag play begins with a good dump...

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I read the whole session. You seemed to play pretty normal to me... You lost your stack trying to bluff early in the session. Stacked tptk with an overpair. Made a few positional raises. What did I miss? Calling that reraise OOP with 86o is bad, especially since you check/folded an all unders flop. I'm not trying to bash on you here, I'm sure you are a solid winner at 1/2. But I think a post like this gives the wrong impression of what constitutes good play. Lag != good necessarily, and the newer players will have a hard time distinguishing the two. Perhaps if you posted your PT database from when you crushed nl25 (before you moved up), it would help the new players a lot more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isura - I think you've seen my post enough (I don't really know these new players on here), to know that I've generally tried to help the new players. The point that I'm trying to brag about beating nl25 for 100+ hands is absurd. I think we've all beaten a particular limit for a few hundred hands at an absurd clip. MY inital post was more of a personal thing for me, like realizing how much better you've become as a player AND as a post to say, you guys can kill this game.

Plain and simple, this is what you should learn from a session like this:

1) Make a nice dump early. The second hand, when I'm called on the turn, I KNOW he's calling for my remaining $9. Why do I do it? I'm showing that I'm going to the felt with air.
2) I'm chatting a lot in the channel. Why? To see who is paying attention and who isn't.
3) I'm raising a wide range of hands (primarily in position), but sometimes OOP and showing my hands. Why? I want to apply as much pressure as possible to my opponents and keep them guessing.
4) I'm folding some hands that I'd raise when there are early limpers. Why? Because you have to have a 'feel' for when players are trying to trap you. There are several examples of this on this table.
5) I'm not folding to a re-raise. Why? Like the 86 hand you mentioned, this would be a really BAD fold. If I'm going to raise a hand like that OOP, and someone re-raises me in position, I have to call if I want to continue to apply the pressure to my opponents. If I fold, I'm saying - go ahead and come over the top of me and I'll fold. By calling, even if I don't like it, I'm continuing to keep them guessing because they have nearly NO idea what I'm calling with. If I happen to hit two pair on that flop or something, I'm likely stacking off against his over pair.
6) I raised primarily to isolate the loosest & worst player at the table when I had position, and the action dictated that I could get the hand HU'S. Count how many times I did that. Otherwise I primarily folded when I wouldn't have position on him (not always though).
7) As a result of my play I got people to play their hands sub-optimally. Why? They didn't know how to make the correct adjustements against my hands.
8) I overbet the pot with weak and strong hands, and only showed my overbet bluffs. Why? Because I want to overbet when I have a strong hand and have them think I'm bluffing in order to pay off my good hands.
9) I got otherwise weak/passive players to stack off against me with very marginal hands, such as the last hand example where a 14/2/0 player raised me with his pair of tens and called off his stack against my straight. There's no way in heck he is doing this against any other player.
10) The culmination of ALL my plays led to the final result. If you don't understand, I can explain further.

[vulturesrow]

Freak,

This is better than your original post by several orders of magnitude. I appreciate your intent in posting the hand and it was great that you posted the session as well. I think perhaps you came off the wrong way to some people. But posting your reasoning is much more conducive to actual discussion.

[quarkncover]

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I'm chatting a lot in the channel. Why? To see who is paying attention and who isn't.

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I think that this is the least used, most underrated, and most rarely discussed aspect to success at NL. Table image is gold. Why do you think after 5 failed cont. bets in a row the table starts paying off your monsters? I think creative and needling banter, even online, can have huge rewards over a long session.

[FreakDaddy]

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I'm chatting a lot in the channel. Why? To see who is paying attention and who isn't.

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I think that this is the least used, most underrated, and most rarely discussed aspect to success at NL. Table image is gold. Why do you think after 5 failed cont. bets in a row the table starts paying off your monsters? I think creative and needling banter, even online, can have huge rewards over a long session.

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Not only that Quark, but you have no meta game expectation if people aren't paying attention. I want to know who is and who isn't. Obviously if people don't respond, but are playing back at me, then I know their paying attention as well. But effective LAG play and chat is essential imo.

[jmillerdls]

Yeesh, being TAG is so much easier than being LAG...Can you effectively 8-10 table doing all these things? I would think its a nightmare. No doubt you will possess many skills that I will never tap into, but I think I'm comfortable with that.

[quarkncover]

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Yeesh, being TAG is so much easier than being LAG...Can you effectively 8-10 table doing all these things? I would think its a nightmare. No doubt you will possess many skills that I will never tap into, but I think I'm comfortable with that.

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I refer you to Grimstarr's posts regarding 9-tabling as a LAG. Its a miracle of miracle's he isn't BUSTO! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[FreakDaddy]

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Yeesh, being TAG is so much easier than being LAG...Can you effectively 8-10 table doing all these things? I would think its a nightmare. No doubt you will possess many skills that I will never tap into, but I think I'm comfortable with that.

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I refer you to Grimstarr's posts regarding 9-tabling as a LAG. Its a miracle of miracle's he isn't BUSTO! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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It's VERY difficult to be an effective LAG playing more than 3 tables imo. I personally have never done it. You definately grow as a player when you play this style though.

P.S. As a respone to your previous post. My inital post wasn't very thought out. I was posting it more as a personal experience, with the intent on sharing the session. Of course now that I'm not tired and it's a new day, I can recognize how threatening what I said is to players egos (which is natural, there's a lot of ego involved in poker, even if you are quite humble). If I were to post over I wouldn't include my win rate or state that the game is "crushable". I honestly do think that 100PTB/100 at this level playing 2-3 tables is not ludicrous, but then again, people have said my winrate playing 6-8 tables was not sustainable, but it was.

I don't think winrate is a direct reflection of a players skill level. As most people know, there are MANY other factors in maintaining a high winrate - most of them being psychological and pertaining to unknown influences that a person has that effects their psyche.