live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...

[dlpnyc21]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand, can represent a wider range, etc., etc. If I don't bet this flop, I am forced to check-call btn down a lot, letting him play perfectly.

Also, what would nick do with JJ, QQ on this flop? What hands would he play like this?

I think me betting 1200 (small bet) also makes this hand a bit more interesting, and probably widens nick's cring range here.


note: not to mention btn almost never has AA/KK/AK here.

[EC10]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand,

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why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it?

[Ship Ship McGipp]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand,

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why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it?

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but 1700 might have!

[dlpnyc21]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand,

[/ QUOTE ]
why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it?

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because betting 2k makes it more expensive for nick to cr this flop (he would need to make it something like 8k, making my decision shove/fold, rather than call/shove/fold. by betting 1200, which I think is definitely a lot different than 1700, it allows him to bluff cr more cheaply.

Do you not think his range is wider here than if I bet 2k on this flop and he cr'd to like 7500?

If I check and button bets, is my plan to donk a non AKQ non spade turn and get it in? Also it puts me in a lot of spots where I have to check call down here which I'm not sure is that fun v. the btn.


What do you guys think nick's range is here given the way he played the hand?

Thanks, sorry for all the questions, this was a confusing hand.

Also, if you assume the flop bet was bad (which I do not necessarily agree with--I think my underbet was a lot worse), what do you do given action?

Thanks,
dlpnyc21

[Ansky]

Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

[dlpnyc21]

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Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

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ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks,
dlpnyc21

[AcidKnight]

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Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

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ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks,
dlpnyc21

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It depends.
Are you willing to play for stacks here? (I don't think you should be)
Is he ever slowing down on the turn with any of his range if you flat call?
Would you ever bet a draw here? If so, would you get it AI on the flop against his range here?

It's basically a big game of how you think he's gonna react to your moves. Your hand is pretty transparent and if you're not willing to stack off here, I'd be mostly folding on the flop and I guess sometimes flatting the flop and folding to a solid turn bet.

[dlpnyc21]

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Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

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ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks,
dlpnyc21

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It depends.
Are you willing to play for stacks here? (I don't think you should be)
Is he ever slowing down on the turn with any of his range if you flat call?
Would you ever bet a draw here? If so, would you get it AI on the flop against his range here?

It's basically a big game of how you think he's gonna react to your moves. Your hand is pretty transparent and if you're not willing to stack off here, I'd be mostly folding on the flop and I guess sometimes flatting the flop and folding to a solid turn bet.

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Don't think I would play for stacks here, I would most likely call and evalute turn. Would probably flat with AA/1010/8x some of the time as well, and shove with them. Would shove most combo draws (although sometimes call with them).

I am not sure if he would slow down on turn, I imagine he would have to be scared after I bet smallish on flop, then "just called" his cr, he would have to be worried I have a big hand, making a turn bet without a very strong hand (we're basically all in on the turn) less likely. That said, if he feels I am weak, I see no reason why he couldn't shove turn, just that he would be less likely to given how strong I look.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

im going to save this thread a whole lot of time bc i don't want to study for this test.

your range for cc'ing pre is v narrow, something like 88-QQ AQs... then sometimes AA/KK, AK, 66-77, but no doubt the latter are less likely than the former.

the button's range is probably similar.

when nick checks the flop, he gets relative position back- that is, he likely views you as a player who will bet most of those hands on the flop "to find out where you're at" or for value, or whatever, becuase i've never played with you but from a dozen posts i've read of you on this board iknow thats what 'level' your'e on, so with an hour or more of play, nick likely knows the same. that said, nick's c-bet here should ahve a very low % of working. it's not a great board to c-bet if you'r enot goign to shove turn or river, because a TON of you and the buttons range either got really healthy and wants to play for stacks, or likes the flop enough to peel at least one street.

becasue of that, i think nick's flop check looks good with nearly his entire range- that which wants to bluff, and that which wants to re evaluate (perhaps the only hand i would argue should lead this flop in nick's case is tens full).

if he thinks one of you will bet, he'll have a ton of options with his entire range, air can raise or fold depending how he views the bet, the nuts can raise, medium strength hands can PC.

when nick CRs, his hand is traditionally tens full+ or AA. concievably after yoru flop bet, he can CR two aces i suppose- expecting to play for stacks against any face card pocket pair; trying to paly it fast to get the most obviously, although as i said it's weighted to the two aces more than two queens- i can't imagine him CRing two queens here.

this is a big long drawn out boring post about absolutely nothing other than when you bet, there are more combinations of the obvious hands that you have JJ, QQ, KK than the less obvious hands that you have TT, 88.

betting the bottom range of your hand that doesn't want to put a bunch of bets in on a bunch of streets here just sucks really badly, and the fact taht you feel like you can't check it for some reason and awnt to define it just scares the bejesus out of me.

[AcidKnight]

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im going to save this thread a whole lot of time...

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Good post