Reasonable hourly rate?

[fishyak]

I find it noteworthy that no one is posting their own stats. I have 800 hrs. in low limit games ranging from 2/4-8/16 + some 3/6 full kill O/8, etc. I'm earning the princely sum of $1.65/hr. This figure is net of all rakes and tips.

I think it is easy to:

1) Overrate your skill set (rookie!),
2) Underrate the impact of variance, both good and bad.

Amoung the games I play, my best BB/hr. rate is 2.9. My worst is -0.1. These rates have seen substantial variance over the year. I'm in my 3rd year LLHE play, but am new to O/8, NL and SNG's which are part of these totals.

I challenge others to answer this question by posting their actual recorded results. Answers that say this book says this or that do not count. Answers that say I think I've done this or that do not count. Do you keep accurate score?

[bellatrix]

Well, I'm a loser at 3/6
I am a winner at 20/40
Both limits have many hands played by me. You can draw your conclusions.

[gobbledygeek]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it noteworthy that no one is posting their own stats. I have 800 hrs. in low limit games ranging from 2/4-8/16 + some 3/6 full kill O/8, etc. I'm earning the princely sum of $1.65/hr. This figure is net of all rakes and tips.

I think it is easy to:

1) Overrate your skill set (rookie!),

2) Underrate the impact of variance, both good and bad.


[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

I've just passed the 850 hour mark of B&M 2/4 and I'm killing the game to the tune of $1.80/hour (i.e. 0.45 BB/hour). I'm exactly 50/50 in sessions won vs sessions lost.

IMHO, I think people greatly overestimate the advantage they have over poor players at the table. For any particular play, an opponent only has one of three options (fold, check/call or raise) and in a lot of instances even bad players can make the correct decision the majority of the time. A blind monkey could probably make the correct decision a fair percentage of the time, and the time he doesn't he could get lucky a fair percentage of that time. Overall these accumulations of small mistakes will cause them to be long term losers (enabling you to become a long term winner) but it ain't the gravy train people make it out to be.

[Foreverastudent]

Fishyak had challenged us to post our stats, but unfortunately at the time, I had only a few hours under my belt when I had started keeping track of my progress.

It's been a few months, and I have a few more hours logged now, and so I'd like to post my results.

Below is a chart of my progress at $3/6 and $4/8 games:



207 hours and 40 minutes of play, and I have won $3644 during that time (includes deductions from buying food and tipping), so that's about $17.55/hr. At $3/6, my rate is $12.48/hr at 89 hours and 50 minutes of play, and at $4/8, my rate is $20.01/hr at 117 hours and 50 minutes of play.

I know it looks really suspicious that my progress so closely follows a straight line, but I think I've just been really lucky in that regard. Looking back on it, I realize now that I could have had a lot wilder up and down ride had a few nights and a few big pots gone the other way.

But I do think big returns are certainly possible at these low stakes. You just need to be very disciplined and very observant. And playing against horrible players certainly doesn't hurt either. The reason I don't think a lot of people have a lot of hours logged at these low limits is because anyone who can earn 2+BB/hr probably has aspirations of playing much higher than $3/6 and $4/8. In fact, I'm getting ready to take a stab at $8/16 and $10/20 games myself, and if I do well there, I doubt I'll ever play the lower games again.

But besides being disciplined and employing sound strategy, I think that knowing your opponents can be extremely profitable and really contributed to my high win rates.

Some players will never check raise and only bet strong hands. Some players only raise pre-flop with pocket pairs. Some players will never fold two pair or better no matter how scary the board is. Some players will never fold to a double raise on the flop if they initially bet, even when it's painfully obvious that they are nearly drawing dead. Some players only raise with the nuts or the near nuts.

You gain the most by recognizing and exploiting these weak tendencies, which is a strategy that I use at these games. It has served me well so far. Don't just develop a cookie cutter strategy that generates a modest profit against a generic $3/6 or $4/8 player. You're really missing out on a lot of profit. I see no reason why other skilled players shouldn't be able to do as well as I have at these levels.

[CAMEL1111]

4bb is the norm for an average player.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

Mason Malmuth in Poker Essays wrote:
3/6
OK: $4
Good: $8
Great: $12
4/8
OK: $5
Good: $10
Great: $14

I don't now if these hold true anymore.

[One Outer]

We're talking about only live, right? I don't think those are accurate anymore.

4 BB seems high to me. I can see a great player doing 3, but four is a little much.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason Malmuth in Poker Essays wrote:
3/6
OK: $4
Good: $8
Great: $12
4/8
OK: $5
Good: $10
Great: $14

I don't now if these hold true anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really doubt it's possible to make 2bb/hour at 3/6 in our heavily raked modern games. If you are playing against very very bad players (typical for 3/6) that ALSO act fast on their hands, then it becomes more feasible though.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

I assume he means live. It's 2 big bets for great players not 4 (4 big blinds I guess). I'm pretty sure this essay is a few years old.