Future of sng's online?

[DevinLake]

I'm pretty sure it's a typo and he meant 100k/yr.

[JSH06]

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I'm pretty sure it's a typo and he meant 100k/yr.

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Actually I think he meant per month. I could see this being possible with rakeback on Party considering you could probably sustain a 10% ROI at $500s back in the day. I didn't play all that much on Party though so I don't know how much the high stakes games ran.

[tigerite]

He means per month. Hell when I used to 8-table the $215s for 3-4 hours a day, part-time, I managed over $20k a month and I wasn't even that good.

As for spite-calling, that's ALWAYS been evident and used to happen to me all the time too. It's quite simple really, you just reduce your pushing range, or in other words, adapt.

[JSH06]

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As for spite-calling, that's ALWAYS been evident and used to happen to me all the time too. It's quite simple really, you just reduce your pushing range, or in other words, adapt.

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exactly

[braminc]

please allow me to chime in [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think there are lots of overrated SNGers from the party days who simply havent adjusted well to the change of the games. Suzzer speaks like one of those people (though i have no clue if he is...). I personally feel like the games havent gotten any tougher since one year ago (beginning of UIGEA) and they might even have gotten slightly softer...?

10% at the 33s are you speaking of turbo or regular? regular 10% is definitely achievable. If turbo, then its only achievable by the better players, but with just 4 tables shouldnt be out of reach. Remember roi alone means little....how many tables you have going is a HUGE factor.

Thirdly. If your not great at either game i would DEFINITELY say to learn cash instead. Theres way more money to be made, way more games to be played, far more freedom in terms of starting and stopping sessions, less annoyance if your connection [censored] up, etc etc. Cash is the way to go ESP for part timers. Its a quadruple win situation.

The only reason i still do sngs is that im slightly good at them now, and im making a good monthly clip (lol at 5-10 players averaging 5k/mth...) and i REALLY dont feel like starting over and sucking for 3-6 months before i match my current hourly rate. Im not in school anymore and have to pay for my life. Although one of these days im gonna have to suck it up and learn cash properly.

[Pedro Brazil]

The thing that really scares me are the top 10 money winners at the last 12 months (36-100, holdem 9-10 seated)on sharkscope. These guys are making between 23k and 37k/year. That gives less then 3k/month.

This number really sucks, considering these guys are probably the best/more hardworking at their level.

[braminc]

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The thing that really scares me are the top 10 money winners at the last 12 months (36-100, holdem 9-10 seated)on sharkscope. These guys are making between 23k and 37k/year. That gives less then 3k/month.

This number really sucks, considering these guys are probably the best/more hardworking at their level.

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Those leaderboards dont say everything. A lot of those guys play several different limits, so thats not their whole profit. And guys also play different sites from time to time also 'masking' some of their total profit. Lastly, your not considering rakeback/bonuses which for high volume, higher limit players adds up to another 25-50k yearly.

[JSH06]

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I personally feel like the games havent gotten any tougher since one year ago (beginning of UIGEA) and they might even have gotten slightly softer...?



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Are you f'n nuts? The games have gotten much, much tougher. More and more people have a decent/good understanding of push fold. There's more people who play very well. There's less complete fish that are just gonna donk off their stack early. The average player is much better. If SNGs were as easy as they were a year ago I'm pretty sure I could have a 15% ROI at $119s 8-12 tabling. Now I'd be lucky if I could get 8%.

[suzzer99]

As a microcosm of what can happen at SNGs, look at the 6x$119s. They used to be sooooo soft. My first 100 I had an ROI of 75%. But I would only play one or two per set, because I thought they would take too much attention to play 8 at a time. I'm dumb.

So then the UIGEA came along and brought newt to PS. And JHUB moved up full time to the $119s. In a few months all the really bad regs were gone, and the mildly bad ones had gotten better. Now the $119s are on par with the average 9x$114, when those used to be wayyyyy tougher. And now Gramps is playing them.

Newt and JHUB basically strip mined the $119s and left a barren wasteland. Whereas under my gentle hand they were more of a renewable resource. Like the Lorax and the truff-alump tress or whatever. I have many more overly dramatic analogies...

[Guthrie]

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I personally feel like the games havent gotten any tougher since one year ago (beginning of UIGEA) and they might even have gotten slightly softer...?



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Are you f'n nuts? The games have gotten much, much tougher. More and more people have a decent/good understanding of push fold. There's more people who play very well. There's less complete fish that are just gonna donk off their stack early. The average player is much better. If SNGs were as easy as they were a year ago I'm pretty sure I could have a 15% ROI at $119s 8-12 tabling. Now I'd be lucky if I could get 8%.

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Very true. The games have definitely gotten tougher, partly because a lot of 2+2ers moved to Stars from Party, started at the lower levels and got stuck there.

But also because the donks have become much more aware of push/fold simply by watching. A year ago, I'd see donks popping off in chat several times a day berating some very good player for pushing junk, getting called, and losing. Now I'll bet I don't see that once a month.

In my case, the combination of more decent push/fold players, and more aware donks, has destroyed me. A year ago I was running 8% at the 16s and 27s, and had high hopes of significantly improving on that as I learned the game. Now I'm certain I'm a far better player than I was then, but I'm barely beating the rake. After yet another catastrophic month in September, I'm back to where I started in January.

To me at least, it makes no difference whether The Venetian calls me a little light because he knows I'm pushing wide, or a donk calls me because he doesn't know any better, once I get called, I lose.

I'm about ready to give up on SnGs, but as I try to move to cash, I have yet to discover how to win an all-in with the best hand.