Hand from Borgata WPT

[smittyuiop]

So the claim is that there is no hand that he raises 6x from BB preflop, checks the flop, and just calls turn bet, therefore has to be an angle shoot with AA/KK. Why can't he have AQ or AJs? I can see both raising big to protect their hand preflop. On the flop he prob puts you both on some middle connected or paired cards so he could easily be going for pot control, induce bluff, WA/WB thing. Then when you lead he could be calling with showdown value and possibly draw to broadway or maybe flush draw too. Can't completely rule out AK, though i agree that he's less likely to slowplay AK than AA. Also on the turn i guess AK is too strong not to raise but not strong enough that he feels comfortable pulling funky [censored] like angle shooting, so I guess no AK. I guess AQ and AJ are too weak given your flop read, but he's already down to 18k so he clearly splashes around without the nuts.

[mused01]

I'm actually confused.
I interpreted his "call" as, "alright, I have nuts here, let's raiseeeee it babyyyyyyy, OH [censored] QJ HAS THE NUTS NOT ME"...(3 seconds later)..I call.

If I were you, I'd c/r the river but since your action showed that he was NOT going to fold, I guess c/fing would be correct.

[g-p]

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Jeff, you completely missed the point. As I said in the OP, I didn't figure the answer out myself. This entire thread is about a mistake I made, and the key piece if information that I did not notice.

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you must have forgotten every other post in the thread u made

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When was I condescending in this thread?

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i know you want me to find some quotes but its just your tone. whatever

Justin-

How strong of a read did you have on the BB? I agree that he only takes the check flop/raise turn line with a range that has you destroyed, but I don't buy that his check flop/call turn has you killed. Yes, obviously he didn't call here, but your logic says that even if he did (i.e., the raise truly was accidental), then you're killed and should fold to the raise anyway.

Let's ignore the fact that he made a sloppy raise, and say he just called the SB lead. Don't people ever take this line with AQ for pot control (understood that the 6BB PF raise OOP decreases the chance of this, but you certainly can't rule it out)? Doesn't AK ever check the flop without even thinking through the hand to realize that c-betting is probably way more +EV? I'm not saying either of these lines are correct, so I guess it comes down to how confident you are with your live read, given that you've already described a general flaw of "overemphasizing live reads."

I just think that assuming a range that is based on an opponent playing optimal poker could be a leak.

[Ignacio Munoz]

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Jeff, you completely missed the point. As I said in the OP, I didn't figure the answer out myself. This entire thread is about a mistake I made, and the key piece if information that I did not notice.

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you must have forgotten every other post in the thread u made

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When was I condescending in this thread?

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Pretty much every post you had in this thread, starting w/ the OP and ending w/ the last one. You don't even realize that you're condescending. That's just great.

[nycballer]

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When was I condescending in this thread?

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L O L my friend

[Bond18]

ZJ,

I haven't read over the thread, but if i had to guess, the clue is, as Shakespeare put it "thou doth protest to much."

He's a lying, angle shooting mother [censored]. I likely end up spite calling to see what he does with the river.

Also, nice OP.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

i'm awaiting a samo-type exit here

[ZeeJustin]

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Justin-

How strong of a read did you have on the BB? I agree that he only takes the check flop/raise turn line with a range that has you destroyed, but I don't buy that his check flop/call turn has you killed. Yes, obviously he didn't call here, but your logic says that even if he did (i.e., the raise truly was accidental), then you're killed and should fold to the raise anyway.

Let's ignore the fact that he made a sloppy raise, and say he just called the SB lead. Don't people ever take this line with AQ for pot control (understood that the 6BB PF raise OOP decreases the chance of this, but you certainly can't rule it out)? Doesn't AK ever check the flop without even thinking through the hand to realize that c-betting is probably way more +EV? I'm not saying either of these lines are correct, so I guess it comes down to how confident you are with your live read, given that you've already described a general flaw of "overemphasizing live reads."

I just think that assuming a range that is based on an opponent playing optimal poker could be a leak.

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It's not optimal poker I'm using as the standard, but ABC poker, because that's what he plays.

It's definitely possible that he raises AQ to 6x preflop, and definitely possible that he checks the flop with AQ, but neither of those options is how I would expect him to play AQ, and combining 2 unlikely decisions together makes it even more unlikely.

For AK, the PF raise fits perfectly, but the flop check and the turn call do not match up. Same thing as before. Maybe one or the other isn't that unlikely, but the combination of the two is very unlikely.

[Pudge714]

More important question than any posed in the thread thus far.
What typed of [censored] up clue did I play that there was a Rusty Spoon?
Maybe it was an inside joke, maybe Canadians get defective clue I'll never now.