My "Political Philosophy"

[Nielsio]

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I think some people want a state and some people dont. The ones who dont are coerced by the ones who do.

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So when you are talking about needs, in which group do you place yourself?

[bunny]

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I think some people want a state and some people dont. The ones who dont are coerced by the ones who do.

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So when you are talking about needs, in which group do you place yourself?

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The coerced I guess. I'd like to live in a world without violence (threatened or otherwise) but am not convinced that the problems I alluded to would be solved very well without a government. Consequently, I'm not going to support abandoning the devil I know until I learn more specifics about the devil I dont.

I dont consider myself advocating either position - I have what I consider to be legitimate questions for advocates of both systems. Inevitably, when you ask a statist a question as to why we need a state they reply with how bad it would be if there was nobody in charge. When you ask an anarchist a question about how anarchy would work, they reply with how bad things are under the state.

[Nielsio]

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I think some people want a state and some people dont. The ones who dont are coerced by the ones who do.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you are talking about needs, in which group do you place yourself?

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The coerced I guess. I'd like to live in a world without violence (threatened or otherwise) but am not convinced that the problems I alluded to would be solved very well without a government.

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Can we recognize coercing people into things they do not want as a problem?

You just admitted that, as being one of the coerced, you recognize that the state in fact does not care about your needs at all.

In coercing, it provides for the needs of some at the expense of others.

As the one being coerced, and it thus having nothing to do with your needs and your problems, I then don't see how you then not dare stand up to this evil.

You say you want to live in a world without violence but you give moral support to the state who coerces you for the benefit of others. Something is wrong there.

[bunny]

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Can we recognize coercing people into things they do not want as a problem?

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Yes? I really dont understand what you're doing in this thread. You appear to not be interested in responding to what I asked (which is fine obviously) but then keep trying to make me ask something else. I've already said I'm sympathetic to the goals of AC but skeptical that it will lead to a society I would want to live in. Consequently I ask for some speculations or suggestions as to how a bunch of problems may be solved in a world without government. We can follow these cryptic answers as far as you like - I'm still going to want to know if there is even a possibility that those will be solved...

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You just admitted that, as being one of the coerced, you recognize that the state in fact does not care about your needs at all.

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No I didnt. Life is more complicated than that. Perhaps it cares about some of my needs but not others? Or perhaps it cares about some of my needs but prioritises others higher? I think that's pretty likely (though again could you clarify whether it is meaningful to say "the state cares..." or not? You've called me on that before I think and said it doesnt even make sense to talk of a state caring)

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You say you want to live in a world without violence but you give moral support to the state who coerces you for the benefit of others. Something is wrong there.

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What moral support do I give?

[Nielsio]

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Can we recognize coercing people into things they do not want as a problem?

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Yes? I really dont understand what you're doing in this thread. You appear to not be interested in responding to what I asked (which is fine obviously) but then keep trying to make me ask something else. I've already said I'm sympathetic to the goals of AC but skeptical that it will lead to a society I would want to live in. Consequently I ask for some speculations or suggestions as to how a bunch of problems may be solved in a world without government. We can follow these cryptic answers as far as you like - I'm still going to want to know if there is even a possibility that those will be solved...

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You just admitted that, as being one of the coerced, you recognize that the state in fact does not care about your needs at all.

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No I didnt. Life is more complicated than that. Perhaps it cares about some of my needs but not others? Or perhaps it cares about some of my needs but prioritises others higher? I think that's pretty likely (though again could you clarify whether it is meaningful to say "the state cares..." or not? You've called me on that before I think and said it doesnt even make sense to talk of a state caring)

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You say you want to live in a world without violence but you give moral support to the state who coerces you for the benefit of others. Something is wrong there.

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What moral support do I give?

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What needs does the state provide you, that you choose to engage in on a voluntary basis?

[bunny]

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What needs does the state provide you, that you choose to engage in on a voluntary basis?

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Subsidised services from police, health care, education, defence, etcetera. Or perhaps the one I began with - protection from the consequences of an open market in nuclear devices.

Can I point out again - I've asked maybe a half dozen questions, all of which you've ignored and we've now got back to "How could AC deal with the problem of nuclear devices in irrational people's hands?"

[Nielsio]

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What needs does the state provide you, that you choose to engage in on a voluntary basis?

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Subsidised services from police, health care, education, defence, etcetera. Or perhaps the one I began with - protection from the consequences of an open market in nuclear devices.

Can I point out again - I've asked maybe a half dozen questions, all of which you've ignored and we've now got back to "How could AC deal with the problem of nuclear devices in irrational people's hands?"

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Now you're contradicting yourself:

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The number of things I think we "need" a state for a very small (and diminishing). Nonetheless, given I think those needs exists, I'm not going to close my eyes and embrace ACism if there is no answer to those concerns. My reason for posting on these topics is not to say "States are better". It's to ask "How are these potential problems to be addressed in AC?".

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Healthcare and education are market phenomena that existed entirely on it's own prior to state nationalization and regulation.

Are you now raising healthcare and education as "potential problems to be addressed in AC" ?