Organizing a project to determine which sites are legit or rigged

[helter skelter]

From what I understood of that, there is some question about the process, since it showed the same for all sites.

In any event, it would be a worthy project. Like I said, the problem is with the process. To ensure the integrity of the process, it has to be audited and for that, you need the co-operation of the sites. If someone could get the co-operation of the sites, then I'm sure there would be people willing to volunteer their time for data collection and analyses. However, even if a site wanted to co-operate, there may be legal and/or ethical reasons why they couldn't, so we would all be reduced to trusting the data providers.

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
From what I understood of that, there is some question about the process, since it showed the same for all sites.

In any event, it would be a worthy project. Like I said, the problem is with the process. To ensure the integrity of the process, it has to be audited and for that, you need the co-operation of the sites. If someone could get the co-operation of the sites, then I'm sure there would be people willing to volunteer their time for data collection and analyses. However, even if a site wanted to co-operate, there may be legal and/or ethical reasons why they couldn't, so we would all be reduced to trusting the data providers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, I think it would be a worthwhile project to the 2+2 universe.

Now how the hell do we do something like this so that we know that we have a fair game when we play on line?

[ryanj247]

i don't know. from what i can gather, there's no reason why a proper analysis can't be done on a set of data from one or more players saved HH. i can't see why we would need cooperation from the sites in order to do a simple analysis on HH. if a statistically inclined individual verifies the testing procedure MT2R used, repeats the procedure on another set of data, and the results are the same, then that would be that. it may not be definitively conclusive. some may question the integrity of that process. but it's something that i would like to see done nonetheless, just as a way of resolving the matter of whether MT2R's results are accurate.

[Misja]

Some tests can be done very easily.

For instance: Count all cases where a player went all-in. Of course discriminate between different stakes, number of opponents, etc. Then count what percentage of those times the all-in player won.
Do the same procedure for another site. Compare the results.
If there is like 5% difference for over 1000 cases, then there is something to investigate.

You really don't need millions of hands for that, your own database is probably already enough.

[Henry17]

[ QUOTE ]
Some tests can be done very easily.

For instance: Count all cases where a player went all-in. Of course discriminate between different stakes, number of opponents, etc. Then count what percentage of those times the all-in player won.
Do the same procedure for another site. Compare the results.
If there is like 5% difference for over 1000 cases, then there is something to investigate.

You really don't need millions of hands for that, your own database is probably already enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? This test couldn't be any more flawed.

[StitchNV]

I am extremely interested in putting some form of dedicated organization that examines this issue in full depth.

So far the agenda would be a compellation of a lot of the questions brought up by this forum.

I have registered the following domain for the use of this project. www.BetSure.org (the name just seemed fitting)

If you would like information regarding the deployment of this project please just PM nineinchal, myself, or email [email protected] for more information.

So far there are a lot of great ideas that I think will really please a lot players in almost every aspect of online poker (from fish to pro rounder)

The project is going to be non-profit and beneficial to all members.

[Misja]

[ QUOTE ]
What? This test couldn't be any more flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, tell us what could be improved in it then! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That is the whole purpose of this thread, to get some discussion going about what tests could be done.

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What? This test couldn't be any more flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, tell us what could be improved in it then! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] That is the whole purpose of this thread, to get some discussion going about what tests could be done.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not the WHOLE purpose, merely part of the purpose. My aim is to develop a device or method of determining which sites are offering a legimate gaming venue, and which ones are not giving a sucker an even break.

[ryanj247]

StichNV wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
I am extremely interested in putting some form of dedicated organization that examines this issue in full depth.

So far the agenda would be a compellation of a lot of the questions brought up by this forum.

I have registered the following domain for the use of this project. www.BetSure.org (the name just seemed fitting)

If you would like information regarding the deployment of this project please just PM nineinchal, myself, or email [email protected] for more information.

So far there are a lot of great ideas that I think will really please a lot players in almost every aspect of online poker (from fish to pro rounder)

The project is going to be non-profit and beneficial to all members.

[/ QUOTE ]

nineinchal wrote:
[ QUOTE ]

I will be requesting information for this purpose once we are ready to process it.

I believe accepting hand histories from posters at this point is premature. It will take some time to get a team in place that can determine what type of procedures will be implemented. Moreover, I remain uncertain as to exactly what is required. Right now there is a lack of human resources who are coordinated in their efforts, since this idea was created by nineinch just yesterday.

First and foremost I want to have integrity, honesty and accuracy as the primary purpose of this endeavor. Otherwise it will be totally useless to all of us.

In the interim you got to chill. Either chill, or start posting your resumes.

[/ QUOTE ]

is any of this actually happening?