The myth of PS rakeback

[mbpoker]

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Stars know this to be true and they will not offer RB because if they did they would be paying back much more than they are now under the VIP/FPP system. To me that is case proved.


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It might be the opposite. What % of the FTP players have signed up there via some affiliate and are entitled to the rb? Perhaps 10%. On Stars 100% of players are eligible.

[turtle82]

also .. while we're still comparing the benefits of the two sites.. shoudln't we also consider the value of the full tilt points for the store? or did we do that already, i'm pretty lost in all these numbers [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In one month of playing about 55000 hands, i've earned enough points to buy a canon powershot sd1000, which is worth maybe 220 dollars on ebay..

[MicroBob]

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also .. while we're still comparing the benefits of the two sites.. shoudln't we also consider the value of the full tilt points for the store? or did we do that already, i'm pretty lost in all these numbers [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In one month of playing about 55000 hands, i've earned enough points to buy a canon powershot sd1000, which is worth maybe 220 dollars on ebay..

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Absolutely one should consider the value of the FT points
I don't know much about the FT points but I can try.

I do know that FT point purchases ARE deducted from your MGR. So when you purchase that camera with your points they actually take some of it out of your rake-back.
$220 or whatever they consider the value of it would be taken out of your MGR meaning the 27% of that would be deducted from the rakeback you were going to receive. So they are taking almost $60 out of your RB when you use your points to buy that camera if I'm understanding it correctly.

For the camera at 55k for $220 approximately that works out to about 0.4 cents per point.
I thought I had read 0.3 cents per point in a different thread about it but I really can't remember for sure.
After you account for the deduction from your total-MGR and you would have made 27% of that it seems to me it would work out to the 0.3 I had seen previously.

Anyway, because the points aren't that valuable to begin with and they deduct the purchases from your MGR my very rough estimate is that the points MAYBE add another 1% to your RB. So maybe you are truly getting 28% there.

Really not sure but the I doubt the points would be worth much more than that.

[MicroBob]

Somebody earlier also mentioned that FT offers significantly more reload bonuses than Stars does.

Now this is absolutely a valid point that I had admittedly forgotten about. There is a lot of stuff back and forth at each site obviously.

I believe the bonuses on FT are deducted from your MGR also but they are obviously still worth it.

Stars has the occasional reload too of course and I believe they are much easier to clear as well AND they are not deducted from your MGR.
But usually Stars does not have nearly as many nor offer as much as the reloads at FT.


I don't know what the RB rate during a bonus-clearance at FT is. But if you play slowly enough that a significant percentage of your time is being spent clearing one reload after another then I'm guessing you could practically be in a constant state of 50% or higher at FT.
And as pointed out before, for many players at lower volume you aren't likely to pull that much at Stars.

[metsfan88]

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milestone bonuses of $1200 and $2200

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I couldn't find anything about this on pokerstars do you mind posting what this is?

[RikaKazak]

I play on tilt because I LOVE "FullTiltShortcuts" and can't get AHK scripts to work for me on stars.

I'd love it if someone came out with a stars equivalent and just charged $20 a year or something like that.

[MicroBob]

I posted briefly about it in my super-long calculations post. It's also on their website.

At 200k VPP's you get a bonus of $2,000.
At 300k VPP's you get a bonus of $3,000.
Also 400k for $4k, 500k for $5k, 750k for $7.5k.
And at 1 million you are SNElite and you get 2 major tourneys and a WCOOP entry which is combined about a $30k value I believe.


Anyway, for the 200k milestone bonus for $2,000:
You have to spend 50k FPP's to 'purchase' the bonus.
This is roughly $800 worth of FPP's that you COULD have previously spent on other stuff including on regular points-for-cash or concierge or whatever.

So basically you have to 'spend' $800 in points to get $2000 which makes it a $1200 bonus.

All the oher milestone bonuses require a 50k FPP purchase as well. So you should deduct $750 or $800 from each one to gauge the true value of each.

[luckychancer]

Another glaring omission from this discussion is the fact that many mid to even high volume players like to spread their play around several sites. To those outside the USA this is especially relevent. One of the flaws and the benefits (for PS) of the PS FPP systems is it does not allow a lot of latitude regarding this aspect wheras RB allows total freedom to move around and find the best games, bonus offers etc.

For those who crave to be 'right' I have no time. Ignoring several important considerations to bolster ones stance does little to add to any intelligent debate. Nor does making statements pertaining to the lack of intelligence of others that do not share ones view.

I think it goes without saying that many would come to PS if it had RB.


It only has RB if a lot of criteria are met and a lot of contraints as well as ongoing commitments. Really in all honesty can that be called RB?
For a few I can easily conceed the answer is yes. For most it's an overwhelming no and neither the board nor the argument belongs to the few.

[Josem]

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Another glaring omission from this discussion is the fact that many mid to even high volume players like to spread their play around several sites.

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It has not been omitted. Many (most?) high volume players are not likely to have any trouble hitting SuperNova in a year, and to maintain it year after year - even after spreading their play across sites.
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Ignoring several important considerations to bolster ones stance does little to add to any intelligent debate.

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The people who I feel this is directed towards have repeatedly implored people to do their own calculations and find whatever suits them individually.

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I think it goes without saying that many would come to PS if it had RB.

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Some may. Some may not. Meh.

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It only has RB if a lot of criteria are met and a lot of contraints as well as ongoing commitments.

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To clarify for readers, the criteria is "playing poker." That's not likely to be a difficult hurdle for online poker players.

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Really in all honesty can that be called RB?

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Don't call it RB then. Call it a Hippopotamus if you want. For the vast majority of players, FPPs can be redeemed for cash. Money in your account can buy the same stuff, regardless of whether it came as "rakeback" or as an "FPP bonus".

This is increasingly becoming a semantic and silly discussion. Play at whatever site you prefer.

[Cry Me A River]

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Really in all honesty can that be called RB?

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This is a really silly, semantic, argument.

We need a yardstick to measure the value of playing on one site versus another. Most (all?) Ongame sites do not offer rakeback, however some Ongame sites offer basically perpetual bonuses. If we were to compare the value of these bonuses to Stars or to FTP we would figure their rakeback equivalent and compare.

Now, if you're so OCD that you have to substitute "Stars equivalent to rakeback" every time you see "Stars rakeback" then you go right ahead. But the bottom line is how much money it costs you to play at a site. Stars may be a little harder to figure out than FTP, but that's what this is really all about. Whether you call it rakeback or not doesn't make a difference to the size of your bankroll.