Purposely scratching in 8-ball?

[suzzer99]

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You play by the bar rules or don't play.

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Ok, what are bar rules? Can you provide documentation for these rules? I know this term is used as a kind of default answer, but can you actually show me a list of bar rules? Does this apply to all bars, or can it change from bar to bar? Get my point yet...the term bar rules means somethign more along the lines of "whatever we decide to play". If you wish to refer to the real rules of pool in general you can find them here.

BCA Standardized Rules

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Bar rules vary from bar to bar. They often aren't written down, but the regulars know them well. Have fun whipping out "BCA standard rules" against a regular. If you're just playing your buddy and no one is waiting obviously you can do whatever you want.

[Quadstriker]

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Bar rules vary from bar to bar. They often aren't written down, but the regulars know them well.

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God forbid having a written down standarized set of rules for a game, rather than some mystical "bar rules" that not everyone knows, changes at will, and very few people can logically explain. Can anyone give a good reason for this other than wanting to start fights with strangers over unknown technicalities?

[suzzer99]

I get the feeling a lot of people posting in this thread have very little experience with bar pool. (Again I'm talking the drunk dumbass, write your name in chalk or put up quarters, 1-4 tables in the bar version of bar pool.)

[otnemem]

I think general bar rules are pretty standard. Then some bars have specific house rules, and some people have dumb rules. It is pretty stupid, but it's the way it is.

In WV, we played that no matter what balls or how many you sank, it was still open until you complete after the break. So if you sink three solids on the break, it's still open. If you miss a follow-up shot, your opponent could steal your solids. It's a terrible rule.

[ceczar]

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In WV, we played that no matter what balls or how many you sank, it was still open until you complete after the break. So if you sink three solids on the break, it's still open. If you miss a follow-up shot, your opponent could steal your solids. It's a terrible rule.

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this is actually standard at most bars, and is in fact the official rule. why is you think it's so terrible? the point of the rule is to reduce the advantage that comes with getting the break. i think most would agree that ideally it should be as close to nothing as possible. the alternative is that when you break and successfully pocket balls, not only is it your turn first, but you automatically get the color with fewer balls left. that seems like it would be a much worse outcome, no?

[otnemem]

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In WV, we played that no matter what balls or how many you sank, it was still open until you complete after the break. So if you sink three solids on the break, it's still open. If you miss a follow-up shot, your opponent could steal your solids. It's a terrible rule.

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this is actually standard at most bars, and is in fact the official rule. why is you think it's so terrible? the point of the rule is to reduce the advantage that comes with getting the break. i think most would agree that ideally it should be as close to nothing as possible. the alternative is that when you break and successfully pocket balls, not only is it your turn first, but you automatically get the color with fewer balls left. that seems like it would be a much worse outcome, no?

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This is not an APA rule, so I'm not sure which official rules you're referring to. The APA rule – which any APA league in the US uses – is that if you only pocket stripes or only solids on the break, you are stripes or solids respectively. If you sink one of each, it's still open. I'm not sure what the rule is if you sink two stripes and one solid, though I'm tempted to say it's still open.

[ceczar]

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This is not an APA rule, so I'm not sure which official rules you're referring to. The APA rule – which any APA league in the US uses – is that if you only pocket stripes or only solids on the break, you are stripes or solids respectively. If you sink one of each, it's still open. I'm not sure what the rule is if you sink two stripes and one solid, though I'm tempted to say it's still open.

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World Pool Association
Billiard Congress of America
Wiki page on 8-ball

wiki seems to suggest WPA is "official", and that's what i've always used, but it does seem the APA uses the rule as you described

don't understand why you think the "automatic open table" rule is so bad though. but my original point was just to make clear that it isn't just a regional WV thing.

[otnemem]

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[don't understand why you think the "automatic open table" rule is so bad though.

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Maybe I've just become used to APA because of my league. It took a while to get used to "slop counts" rules. In APA, you don't have to call any pockets, except for the eight.

[Iplayragstoo]

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In WV, we played that no matter what balls or how many you sank, it was still open until you complete after the break. So if you sink three solids on the break, it's still open. If you miss a follow-up shot, your opponent could steal your solids. It's a terrible rule.

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this is actually standard at most bars, and is in fact the official rule. why is you think it's so terrible? the point of the rule is to reduce the advantage that comes with getting the break. i think most would agree that ideally it should be as close to nothing as possible. the alternative is that when you break and successfully pocket balls, not only is it your turn first, but you automatically get the color with fewer balls left. that seems like it would be a much worse outcome, no?

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I have played all over the country, and in many, many, many bars, and this is NOT the normal rule. I wish it was. Its better for the better player.But you are 100% wrong about it reducing the advantage for the breaker. It GREATLY increases the advatage. Lets say you break, and make 3 solids. You know look around and see that from where the cue ball lyes you have no shot at any solid, but could easly run the stripes out. Whats the disadvantage? Some people think because they win a game, and leave thier opponant with all 7 of thier object balls its better then leaving them with 1 or no object balls left. It doesnt matter, a win is a win. So there is no advantage to making balls on the break and not being able to get out. Its actually a disadvantage. If i am playing you, and I offer to spot you any 3 of your object balls to get dropped after the break with the stipulation that I get to choose the balls, and I get the breaks, you will lose ALOT of games without ever getting to the table. Think about it, you will see why. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[ceczar]

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I have played all over the country, and in many, many, many bars, and this is NOT the normal rule. I wish it was. Its better for the better player.But you are 100% wrong about it reducing the advantage for the breaker. It GREATLY increases the advatage. Lets say you break, and make 3 solids. You know look around and see that from where the cue ball lyes you have no shot at any solid, but could easly run the stripes out. Whats the disadvantage? Some people think because they win a game, and leave thier opponant with all 7 of thier object balls its better then leaving them with 1 or no object balls left. It doesnt matter, a win is a win. So there is no advantage to making balls on the break and not being able to get out. Its actually a disadvantage. If i am playing you, and I offer to spot you any 3 of your object balls to get dropped after the break with the stipulation that I get to choose the balls, and I get the breaks, you will lose ALOT of games without ever getting to the table. Think about it, you will see why. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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i see what you're saying, and will agree that for good players it is an advantage. but i think for the average player who rarely sinks more than 1 or 2 balls per turn, automatic open table actually reduces the advantage of breaking, because far more often in a casual game will someone miss their first shot after the break than someone will pick the other color. so i disagree 100% with your "But you are 100% wrong about it reducing the advantage for the breaker", but i agree that if for a very good player it increases the advantage then the point of the rule couldn't have been what i said.


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In WV, we played that no matter what balls or how many you sank, it was still open until you complete after the break. So if you sink three solids on the break, it's still open. If you miss a follow-up shot, your opponent could steal your solids. It's a terrible rule.


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You're leveling right?


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In that I think it's a terrible rule? I play APA rules, so no.


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the fact that you play APA rules normally should have nothing to do with whether you think it is a good rule or not. if you sink 4 balls on the break, you really have no control over how many out of the 4 were solids, so there's really no reason why those solids should be considered "yours"