How spewey is this? 5/10

[Brian]

[ QUOTE ]
im really not trying to be an ass but this thread sucks

and i only like this hand if your shove was for value, which it would be very difficult for that to be the case, we need more information here, like does he usually DB in is 3bet pots or does he just shut down?

i think a call is much better than any other option, esp if he only bets turn when ahead, we can call flop and c/f turn, and prolly pick off a bluff if he bets a non ace river

raising only allows him to play optimally against you, he calls with better and folds worst-therefore bad raise right? poker 101

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with rand.

First of all, if I'm raising with 22 here pre-Flop (which is my default play), and calling this guy's re-raise, then I am most definitely not folding on this Flop. But I'm not shoving either. I'm calling the Flop, and seeing how the Turn develops. I'd be willing to call a Turn bet often too, but like rand said, I'd want to know a bit more about his post-Flop tendencies.

That being said, with an aggressive SB who likes to 3-bet, I am open folding 22 from the CO.

[SEABEAST]

[ QUOTE ]
he calls with better and folds worst-therefore bad raise right? poker 101

[/ QUOTE ]

some of you guys should play some tourneys or something and learn about fold equity + pot odds, seriously. think outside the square for a minute. of course in a vacuum vs an unknown calling preflop is terrible. of course in a vacuum vs an unknown sliding this flop in a reraised pot is terrible. but if villain's range is big enough, then the substantial amount you take down when he folds added to the 25% or whatever equity you have when he calls can easily make this a profitable play, and villain's range doesn't need to be THAT big for this to be the case.

bigger than the majority of players? yes, but as soon as it starts to include JTo QJs 98s A8s KJ KT 97s etc etc random hands that many overaggressive 5/10 party regs are threebetting all the time vs late position raises from other regulars, if they are cbetting 100% of their range on weak flops like this one (and guys like this are) then this is easily a profitable play. if some of you guys have never considered the fact that people are reraising all these sort of hands vs you on a routine basis then you are getting exploited. and sometimes it's ok to shove and pray opponent folds, that doesn't make a play desperation or -ev.

[Brian]

[ QUOTE ]
and sometimes it's ok to shove and pray opponent folds, that doesn't make a play desperation or -ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think shoving is +EV. I think calling is better.

[teh_mewse]

wow so many differing opinions. I decided just to make a poll, cast your vote

[fitnessfreak]

i voted for played perfect, but that's postflop only. im not a huge fan of preflop.

cheers seabeast for your last post btw. its great when a good player actually gives a proper explanation of why they think what they think. at least that way i can understand the thought process behind it before i decide whether i agree or not. learning is fun [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[FionnMac]

Do you have anymore info on villain (or perhaps his sn for the party regs).

This all boils down to whether you believe he is going to be auto-c-betting this flop with most of his range. If he is then obviously this is fine. If he's gunna be c/f with AK/Q-10s/89s etc alot of them time on a flop like this (as most standard TAGs would do presumably) then this is probably spew.

[setjes]

Not a fan of pf, but I think it's fine. Would u shove AQ here too?

[JReezy]

[ QUOTE ]


I think shoving is +EV. I think calling is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think shoving>folding>calling once the flop hits

[Alexos]

I dont get the argument for calling here. How would you play this flop if u had any kind of draw, an overpair, or AK? Most of the time I'd shove all of these on this flop.