****OFFICIAL BONDS USED STEROIDS THREAD*********

[niss]

Easier answer for Bonds. If it's false, he should sue them for libel. He's got the money to bankroll a litigation, and it should be pretty easy to prove that what's written in the book is false -- for example, that the records they say exist do not exist in reality.

[RedBean]

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Easier answer for Bonds. If it's false, he should sue them for libel. He's got the money to bankroll a litigation, and it should be pretty easy to prove that what's written in the book is false -- for example, that the records they say exist do not exist in reality.

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Very true, but what is to gain by a multi-millionare who is at the sunset of his career and about to enjoy the rest of his life in luxury have to gain by instead spending 4-5 years tied up in civil courts suing two newspaper columnists with a combined net worth of less that one week's pay?

Not to mention, no matter what outcome of any libel suit, the publicity of it will remain on the fornt page and people will villify him no matter the outcome.

When I read the synopsis that one of the authors was fired from a job early in his career for fictionalizing news articles, and the other was barred from teh Giants clubhouse in the late 90's for villifying players, it made me question their motivation and credibility.

I'm not saying Bonds is squeaky clean by any measure, he may be, he may not be, but I find it amazing how everyone places INSTANT credibility and infallibility in these two authors who they know nothing about, just to justify their preconcieved notions on Bonds.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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Very true, but what is to gain by a multi-millionare who is at the sunset of his career and about to enjoy the rest of his life in luxury have to gain by instead spending 4-5 years tied up in civil courts suing two newspaper columnists with a combined net worth of less that one week's pay?

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his reputation, his family's reputation, and entry into the Hall of Fame.

[RedBean]

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his reputation, his family's reputation, and entry into the Hall of Fame.

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DO you really think anyone's thoughts on him would change? It's quite obvious by the outrage and villification in this thread alone and the media in general since the announcement yesterday that preconcieved notions exist no matter what the actual truth is.

Consider this, for everyone in this thread pointing to this book as absolute proof of Bonds misdeeds, not a single one of them has actually read the book.

Would you not feel sheepish if the book came out and also detailed how Bonds sold his soul to the devil, or actually arrived via UFO in the mid-60's and his super alien strength is the source of his power?

My only point was I am amazed at how much credibility everyone is giving to something they have not even read, and it smacks of their preconcieved notions, not of factual evidence.

[Vincent]

I read the SI excerpts, and it's pretty damning circumstantial evidence. It seems pretty detailed from the excerpts with multiple sources filling in details who were around the situation. It's not like the authors asked the batboy, "Whadya think son?" Batboy replies, "Barry likes juice." Authors rejoice, "We got him!"

Also, if Shaq started getting 40ppg/20rpg in only 25mpg, that would be a more fitting comparison.

[RedBean]

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I read the SI excerpts, and it's pretty damning circumstantial evidence. It seems pretty detailed from the excerpts with multiple sources filling in details who were around the situation. It's not like the authors asked the batboy, "Whadya think son?" Batboy replies, "Barry likes juice." Authors rejoice, "We got him!"


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I agree it is damning circumstantial evidence, but it is circumstantial nonetheless. And of course it reads as very detailed and convincing....if you were writing a book and hoping to make millions, you would make it as convincing as possible.

This isn't the smoking gun that everyone was hopping it to be. It doesn't make it fact. Agreed, it could be 99.9% likely, but it just isn't a confirmed fact.

They are capitalizing on public sentiment to make millions, at the expense of one man's reputation.

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Also, if Shaq started getting 40ppg/20rpg in only 25mpg, that would be a more fitting comparison.

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There is no correlation to juicing and huge performance increases in baseball, other than anecdotal. It does nothing to improve hand-eye coordination, and while additional upper body mass improves bat force, it actually reduces bat speed. Not that it proves or disproves anything, but I most can probably agree that no amount of steriods is going to make someone more selective at the plate or improve their ability to properly time their swings on the variety of junk the pitcher is throwing.

For reference, see Alex Sanchez's stats.

The thing that distinguishes Bonds from his peers in terms of performance over the years, at least to ME, was his innate ability to be selective at the plate, rarely swing at bad pitches, patience to wait on his pitch.... hence the high number of walks and extremely low strikeout totals for a hitter with pop.

I don't have an opinion either way on what he did or didn't put in his body, I just enjoy the game of baseball and it is always a pleasure to see him practice his craft, because all prejuidices aside, the man is an artisan in the batter's box.

It's no different to me than Maddux getting Lasik to improve his vision, or the long list of pitchers who were able to prolong their careers through Tommy John surgery, or the assertions that Hank, Mick, Duke, Willie, and about 97% of MLBers since the 50's popped greenies to keep them going.

I'm old enough to remember when baseball purists thought it was "unnatural" and "borderline shady" for power hitters to lift weights and workout year round. Other players didn't like it at first because it then forced them to do the same conditioning to keep up and stay competitive.

Granted, juicers are not just getting a free ride to fame and fortune, they are going to pay for their choices with a shortened life span (Alzado, Caminiti, etc). It's their life, it's their choice. I only watch baseball for entertainment purposes, and if a guy is willing to risk death to entertain me, that shows dedication.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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This isn't the smoking gun that everyone was hopping it to be. It doesn't make it fact. Agreed, it could be 99.9% likely, but it just isn't a confirmed fact.

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I don't have an opinion either way on what he did or didn't put in his body

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so, you think it's 99.9% likely, but you're reserving all possible judgements until that .1% comes in. ok.

[roundmound]

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There is no correlation to juicing and huge performance increases in baseball, other than anecdotal. It does nothing to improve hand-eye coordination, and while additional upper body mass improves bat force, it actually reduces bat speed.

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Assuming the weight of the bat doesn't change, physics 101 tells us that a faster bat will always have a greater force. There is no possible way a hitter could create more force while slowing their bat speed. It is probably true that after a ceartain point gaining muscle mass would decrease bat speed, but this would then also decrease the force.

[Sluss]

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My only point was I am amazed at how much credibility everyone is giving to something they have not even read, and it smacks of their preconcieved notions, not of factual evidence.

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The Chronicle reporters, who based the book on a two-year investigation, included an extensive summary on their sources, including court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, documents written by federal agents, grand jury testimony, audio recordings and interviews with more than 200 people. They may have some credibility.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

I can't even believe I need to argue about this. but...

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It's quite obvious by the outrage and villification in this thread alone and the media in general since the announcement yesterday that preconcieved notions exist no matter what the actual truth is.

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why do you think these "preconcieved notions" exist? people out of the blue just started to think that Bonds juiced?

Didn't Bonds ADMIT to using "the cream" and "the clear"?

Do you not remember this?

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Consider this, for everyone in this thread pointing to this book as absolute proof of Bonds misdeeds, not a single one of them has actually read the book.

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no, but people have read the excerpts

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Would you not feel sheepish if the book came out and also detailed how Bonds sold his soul to the devil, or actually arrived via UFO in the mid-60's and his super alien strength is the source of his power?

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YES!!! I WOULD!!! but since the book will not say such ridiculous things w/o hard evidence, I'm confident this won't be a problem.

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My only point was I am amazed at how much credibility everyone is giving to something they have not even read, and it smacks of their preconcieved notions, not of factual evidence.

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Do you think OJ is innocent too?