Can someone explain Mormon to me?

[Follow]

Where did you say you're from? There is a really big difference between "Mormon" and "Mormon-Lite" like I've said.




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[threeonefour]

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Where did you say you're from? There is a really big difference between "Mormon" and "Mormon-Lite" like I've said.




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[/ QUOTE ] my dad served in the stake presidency, i certainly was the opposite of mormon-lite. my family has the food storage, 72 hour kits, CTR rings, tithing/fast offering stubs, quilts, 6 kids, merit badges, family home evenings, temple pictures on the wall, etc to prove it

my brother served an honorable mission, my brother and two sisters that are old enough to be married are married (ages 21,25,27), i got fast offerings, went to seminary, served the sacrament, spoke in church, i received my patriarchal blessing when i was 14 (which is something anti-mormon people don't talk about much but is easily one of the strangest practices from an outsider's perspective in all of mormondom imo). i didn't have many LDS friends so outside of young men's i didn't really go to many socials/dances though. but yea, i was pretty *in*


oh yea i went to general conference several times. i personally rose my right arm to the square to give my vote of confidence for Prophet Howard W. Hunter.

[Taraz]

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the history of the Mormon church, but they changed their position on race in the 70s. They used to proclaim whiteness as virtuous and dark skin as sinful.

[threeonefour]

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I'm not sure if you're familiar with the history of the Mormon church, but they changed their position on race in the 70s. They used to proclaim whiteness as virtuous and dark skin as sinful.

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that isn't exactly accurate. they did change their stance in the 70s yes. however it was more like this, the descendants of cain (people of color basically) were cursed for cain's transgression. as such they were not worthy for the priesthood, though they could still be members of the church.

much like women today can not be priesthood holders. women are not thought of as inferior, its just not the role they play. at the time, the church leaders (or rather god) did not think it was yet the time for black people to have the preisthood. which sounds bad right? was it a mistake? most outside of the church would say yes. but it wasn't exactly what anti-mormon people frame the situation as. basically all christian churches have similar problems with their policies if you look into their past (more distant for many churches). Catholicism in particular. not that that is an excuse, i just think its important to come from the right perspective. to say that mormons think OR thought black people were more sinful/immoral than white people is simply wrong imo and i think anyone who actually researched the issue in an honest manner would come to the same conclusion.

of course that policy is no longer in effect, for obvious reasons.


for the record, this is just my understanding of the issue which may be somewhat off. so if you want the official line you should really ask a bishop, church official, official church website or missionary. you should probably double check if your source is a missionary though, they are just kids themselves, not necessarily scholars.

[Taraz]

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that isn't exactly accurate. they did change their stance in the 70s yes. however it was more like this, the descendants of cain (people of color basically) were cursed for cain's transgression. as such they were not worthy for the priesthood, though they could still be members of the church.

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So people of color were cursed and unworthy. That doesn't sound like black people are more sinful to you? I mean, seriously?

And I would love to see enrollment numbers for people of color prior to the 80s. I realize that you can claim that they were allowed in the church, but it wasn't so in practice unfortunately.

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basically all christian churches have similar problems with their policies if you look into their past (more distant for many churches). Catholicism in particular. not that that is an excuse, i just think its important to come from the right perspective.

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Most definitely true. It is just interesting that nobody wants to own up to the fact that there used to be racist policies in place.

I don't mean to say that I think Mormons are evil or dumb or anything like that. I knew several Mormon families growing up and they were consistently awesome people.

[Follow]

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my dad served in the stake presidency, i certainly was the opposite of mormon-lite. my family has the food storage, 72 hour kits, CTR rings, tithing/fast offering stubs, quilts, 6 kids, merit badges, family home evenings, temple pictures on the wall, etc to prove it

my brother served an honorable mission, my brother and two sisters that are old enough to be married are married (ages 21,25,27), i got fast offerings, went to seminary, served the sacrament, spoke in church, i received my patriarchal blessing when i was 14 (which is something anti-mormon people don't talk about much but is easily one of the strangest practices from an outsider's perspective in all of mormondom imo). i didn't have many LDS friends so outside of young men's i didn't really go to many socials/dances though. but yea, i was pretty *in*


oh yea i went to general conference several times. i personally rose my right arm to the square to give my vote of confidence for Prophet Howard W. Hunter.

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You still haven't answered my question, but from your post, I can easily conclude that you aren't from Utah or the surrounding states mentioned in my earlier post. Just because your dad was stake president doesn't make you the "opposite" of "Mormon-Lite." It's the culture around you that makes the religion hard core and cultish, not necessarily the wacky teachings. When you have large numbers of Mormons in the same place (as in Utah, Idaho, California, Arizona, and in some cases Wyoming), you have a very different culture from Mormonism in say; Delaware...

Utah Mormons (and I use that term to describe more states than just Utah) are very different from your perception of them. I would invite you to actually spend a year in Utah and go join a ward to understand just how different it is here than in other places. Here you can see what Mormons WANT their religion to look like, not what it does look like outside of here. I have known hard line East Coast Republicans that have come here and ditched the party because of how frightening it was in this state (owned and operated by the Mormons here).

Honestly though, why would you want to go through this obfuscation gag with the faith of the Mormon church in the first place? Isn't the whole point of having a church at all to be free to worship what you want to? Or what they want to? Frankly, I'm more disappointed by the Mormon's inability to hold the line more than I am anything else. This is America, where you can have wacky religions and worship that way freely (and I can freely point and laugh). But the efforts to make Mormon doctrine seem "mainstream" in any way are absolutely disgusting.

By the way, the Mormon Jesus is different from the biblical Jesus. If for no other reason than the Mormon Jesus was the brother of Lucifer, which is not the case with the Christian one. A countless number of Mormon "prophets" [sic] also say that the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, so there is very little denial possible in that point.




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[threeonefour]

Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.

[Follow]

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Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.



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Idaho was on my list, especially Southern. How is it that you weren't around many Mormons growing up if you were in Southern Idaho?




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[threeonefour]

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Follow i am from south central Idaho, i don't think the church is as regional as you think it is. i have been to many services. including MANY in utah, my old sister and brother both went to BYU and currently live in Utah, i also have an aunt and uncle who have lived in Utah for the past 12 years, both of my grandparents from my maternal side were born and raised in Utah, my mother lived in Utah for several years, i have been to several general conferences in Utah, trust me, southern idaho (i was like 4 hours from Salt Lake) is no different than utah. i mean salt lake is a bit different just by virtue of the place being so urban relative to southern idaho but thats about it. and there really isn't much of a cultural difference.

i even have a couple of relatives who came to Utah with the handcart companies that first made the trek to settle the salt lake area.

my father was a convert, though there are LDS patches throughout his family tree, and there are some non LDS patches on my maternal side as well, but for the most part i am about as entrenched as they come.



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Idaho was on my list, especially Southern. How is it that you weren't around many Mormons growing up if you were in Southern Idaho?




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[/ QUOTE ]I knew virtually every mormon kid in town but wasn't good friends with any mormons until my senior year of high school. i was always kind of the black sheep. i was accepted by the mormons, but didn't really hang out with them. sometimes i would get invited to mormon parties though, but usually because its the polite thing to do when they are already inviting my older brother.


i was kind of the "worldly" bishop's son, the one that you might have to worry a bit about. at least thats my perception of where i fit in.

[Follow]

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my family has the food storage

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Just a funny story from when I was helping a Mormon family move once back in the day. They had a ton of wheat (not under a ton, exactly 1 ton) which we had to move from one house to another. In the process of the move, I asked him what the wheat was for. He explained to me that the wheat is for the final days, so that he can take care of his family, in case of a large scale disaster. I was a little puzzled by his answer and asked what he planned to do about water, since wheat without water doesn't do much good. His answer was simply, "God will provide."

So I asked him why God wouldn't provide the wheat too...




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