Awkward hand means awkward river

[pokerkasper]

O M G!

there is never a

"no one is folding two pair.
people hardly ever fold top pair."

simply don´t give them the extra-chance to make good decisions, but give them any chance to make bad decisions and probably some extra money for you.

As for you: I am the guy who fold two pair or top pair on the river depending on my pair(s), the board, the number of players and the betting patterns. 5+ players and clear draws out is a clear fold. You need about 19-1 to call for a bluff on the river.

But i´m glad about every sucker who call my flushes here.

[kerowo]

I'm leading this flop because I want 6 people putting in monies. I'm betting the river because I made the hand I wanted to make. There be Variance thar! But really, flush over isn't that common.

[marchron]

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But really, flush over isn't that common.

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True as this is, it'd be a lot more likely here than in most other hands. We have the second worst possible flush (since we hold 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] the only flush that can be worse given this board is 53[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) and there's four other people who were hanging around until this point for some reason.

Given that, I don't think check/call is terrible here.

[BigBadBabar]

wow march, wow

[Shillx]

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wow march, wow

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We're gonna lose to a better flush a good % of the time. That said I would still bet.

[pokerkasper]

Gyus. Everyone knows, in general it´s necessary to bet for value on the river. All i´m saying is. Sometimes in LH, especially Small and Micro there might be exceptions depending on several factors, which make a check more profitable. Unfortunatly or fortunatly those exceptions are not discussed in the Poker-Theorie for the sake of simplification, which is OK. IMO the hand above is such an exception. It´s that Hero is first to bet against 4 players. Given a lot of players in those limits are like the CO-player here, you might get added value by checking the river. Simply give them a chance to make a move or value bet into you. If they don´t have a hand to bet this flop, the have no hand to call your bet. So you lose nothing. But if they have a hand strong enough to call a possible flush, they have a hand strong enough to bet and you may extract extra money by simply check-raise. Its all about your relative position the number of players on the river. This dont work by less than 4 or 5 players. Also the small flush may be an extra factor to check here. No question, against 2 players you bet this micro-flush. But here with 5 players hanging around on a textured board in microlimits it´s not unlikely you will be surprised by a nut-flush.

Neverless you might auto-play this hand by betting and i might be completely wrong. I simply like to take my freedom and think about this hand.

[OziBattler]

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Given a lot of players in those limits are like the CO-player here

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I disagree with this.



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IMO the hand above is such an exception.

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Why do you think that? You have a guy who posted UTG plus another poster and the one guy who we have stats on is certified as erratic.

Im all for considering the exceptions and whilst it is possible that we were drawing to a worse flush here there will also be times when our opponents surprise us cos they dont play like we do.......I suppose you could "check and see"...ie check and see who bets and plan a CR if someone right after you bets but personally I prefer to bet/call rather than CR because being 3 bet would really suck here.

[KitCloudkicker]

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. Simply give them a chance to make a move or value bet into you. If they don´t have a hand to bet this flop, the have no hand to call your bet. So you lose nothing.

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i've been playing poker for 2 years, and this happens so frequently that i can tell what will happen before it happens. if you check, two pair will likely check, top pair will check, and you GET NOTHING!! YOU LOSE!! GOOD DAY SIR!!

if you bet, two pair wont like it but HE'LL CALL ANYWAY, and really bad players (that frequent these games) will still call with top pair. Hell, I'd still definitely call with two pair if i dont have a read on a guy and i'd be happy to do so.

if you check here and two bad players check that would have called, which on this type of board is very probable, you just missed out on two BB's for no reason at all. stop thinking that you can only bet the river with the nuts; you'll be missing on tons of potential profitability.

if you find that people are auto-folding to your bets whenever a potential draw hits and thus making them have no value- heres some news for you - you arent betting enough.