Online poker, and unpaid student loans…

[Mendacious]

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I guess I’m just not wanting to see (in the midst of poker trying to become more credible for various reasons) some story on the news taking ten random students who have over 75k in college loans in default that they can’t pay back, and like 30k of that is on poker alone. This has nothing to do with governments taking our freedoms, and so on. It has to do with poker trying to become more credible, and the things that will make that credibility more difficult to attain.


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This really is the point. These are made up numbers, but I think 15% of the public hates gambling, 15% love gambling, and 70% are mostly ambivilant towards RESPONSIBLE gambling.

The battle going on really is to persuade the middle that our side is correct. To that end, we have the argument and bias of American's towards personal freedom. On the other side, there is the picture of IRRESPONSIBLE gambling and its consequences.

To that extent that we can demonstrate that gambling can be allowed to be readily available (at the push of a button) we have to be able to demonstrate that the scourge of irresponsible gambling will not become too great a burden.

For that reason, sites voluntarily set deposit limits, age limits etc., to combat the fear that they are preying on the overly vulnerable with the gravest of consequences. see "click a mouse, lose your house". It pays to be proactive on these types of issues.

By the same token, t would not be a good thing if people converting student loans to gambling bankrolls became a problem. Notwithstanding the fact that college students "know everything", they are young people with virtually no money management experience who are MOST prone to addicition. It would be much better to deal with this proactively then to let it become a great weapon for the anti-gambling crowd.

[Mendacious]

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I guess I’m just not wanting to see ...
You get the picture…

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Let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Until then, let's stop imitating countries like Saudi Arabia or China.

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We crossed that bridge in October. We now are trying to persuade the general public to care enough to allow us back to the other side.

[Mendacious]

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Remember the government and corporations make money off of giving out loans. You pay interest on them. I don't see how people gambling with their loan money is going to hurt the program. They still have to pay off the money and the people in charge get their interest.


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If I thought the student loan program was self-sustaining I would agree. But my impression is that this is a money drain program for the Gov. due to defaults on these loans.

I'm not looking to "fix" the student loan program, I am concerned about any failures of the student loan program being used as a weapon against gambling. Based on the prevelence of onine poker in college, this strikes me as a viable concern.

[75s]

The soloution seems really easy to me. Have lenders work with schools so the money is only spent on tuition, meal cards and books.

[Mendacious]

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The soloution seems really easy to me. Have lenders work with schools so the money is only spent on tuition, meal cards and books.

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No, much better, obviously we just allow Party and Stars to act as guarantor on student loans of those who wish to gamble with the money. Problem solved!

[jackaaron]

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I really don't see how some using it for gambling is relevant. It's obviously not a good thing to do. It's incredibly irresponsible and poor money management. But it's not different than wasting it on other unnecessary toys.

I also don't see how the government can regulate it. The students get a check and they deposit it into their bank accounts. The government has no clue about what happens to it afterwards. They may use it to pay rent or use it to buy an HDTV. How would anyone know if the $1000 they deposited into FTP came from the refund check or other money they have. What is the solution? Making it illegal to gamble until you've paid off your loans?

Remember the government and corporations make money off of giving out loans. You pay interest on them. I don't see how people gambling with their loan money is going to hurt the program. They still have to pay off the money and the people in charge get their interest.

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This whole post was about 'unpaid' student loans, there being more of them than usual, the correlation that has to poker, and the impact it has on online poker proponents. I never said anything about people paying off the loans at any point.

[questions]

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This whole post was about 'unpaid' student loans, there being more of them than usual, the correlation that has to poker, and the impact it has on online poker proponents.

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I haven't seen any stats showing that student loan delinquencies are up, but even if true, first, the economy is not all that great. Second, how can you possibly correlate delinquencies with online poker, for crying out loud? Do you know how many people have loans and how much money is outstanding? It must be tens or hundreds of billions.

[TheEngineer]

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They should also post federal marshalls outside of student loan recipients' dorms to ensure said students don't stay out too late, and to ensure they're in class on time. They can also ensure recipients don't attempt to go to Vegas. After all, adults cannot be trusted to make their own decisions. Government should do that. Just ask Stalin, Mao, or Kyl.

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This isn't specifically for the post I'm quoting, but I hope that my orig post isn't meant to be a dig at college students using loans for poker.

I really was just wondering about the repercussions over the next several years.

I realize that those same students could be using the money for other things entirely if online poker didn't exist.

But, when a fun trend emerges (such as online poker), I think that you have not only the students that would normally use student loans for things other than tuition, books, rent, BUT a large group of people borrowing for online poker ADDED ON to that first group.

We're not talking like a few thousand...most of us know that you can get additional loans over the course of your 4 years that total more than 20k (maybe more), and that's completely separate from your tuition, books, etc. loans. I'm not talking overage here.

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This is a free country, and college students are adults. They borrowed money and they have an obligation to repay it.

I fail to see the significance of your post. This is the Legislation forum. Are you proposing legislation to control how college students spend their loans? I don't think you'll find any support here (at least not from me) for adding to the government nanny state. I have no problem with adding a clause to the loan contract stipulating that the money won't be spent on illegal drugs, gambling, alcohol, prostitutes, or other items but, like UIGEA, this is just a feel-good measure.

Cheers.

[TheEngineer]

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Or maybe they should just forego the loan contract altogether and just give away all the money to anyone for any reason.

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Loans are made semester-by-semester. They are dependent on the student staying current on bills and on passing classes. That's the ONLY interest government should have in the matter, IMHO.

If students gamble it away, they'll only hurt themselves, as they will have to repay their loans with interest. The system protects itself without demanding students account for every dime.

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Frankly Engineer, I thought you were a little smarter.

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Now you're going to insult people who disagree with you? Frankly, you sound like one of the prohibitionists, arguing that adult college students cannot control themselves, and therefore require the federal government to do it for them. Sorry, but if they're old enough to die in Iraq, then they're old enough to handle their loans.


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It would be pretty stupid and irresponsible to ignore this as an issue if in fact it is prevelant.

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You sure do like to call people stupid. Also, you're using a Spencer Bachus-type argument in that you state the worst case, with no evidence of it being an issue, then put the onus on us to show that it is or isn't an issue.

[TheEngineer]

This question isn't about gambling, per se. Rather, it's about how students spend their student loans. After all, there are many irresponsible ways to spend money.

I think there are two choices. Either leave them alone and treat them as adults, or provide a list of things they're allowed to purchase with the money and have them turn in forms, like a business trip expense form. They could have debit cards issued specifically for this. I favor the first option, but I have no dog in this hunt.

Why are we discussing this? Even Kyl hasn't mentioned issues with gambling with student loans.