Annie Duke Interview Controversy regarding Ladies WSOP event.

[CincyLady]

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Are you saying they played well during the event and then badly at the final table because they were on TV? Not likely.

Of course I'm not talking about Katja and Vanessa who have both played in other events (you know, the ones where everyone can play) and been successfull. I think their only error was playing the final table the way they normally would and not recognizing that these women were going to play as few hands as possible and wait for others to bust. But it's hard for good players to sit back and do that so they kept mixing it up and unfortunately busted out.

A few years ago I took a surfing lesson and as I was walking down to the water, another woman was coming back from her lesson. I asked her if she had gotten up and she said "no, I didn't try". I remember thinking "what a wimp". She was in 5 feet of water! What was she afraid of? That's how I think about women that ONLY play in women's events and there are lots of them. What are they afraid of???? And why would they want to put limits on their tournament experience?

The argument is always that the women will start in the womens only events and then move on to others but few have done that here. There are still very few women playing in regular tournaments but the women's events sell out everytime.

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I was just saying that it might of been a factor, the TV aspect of it. I have heard of some guys who've froze up as well in that kind of situation, when they knew they were on TV.

As for getting more women into mixed events, and how the the women's event sell out all the time ... just one word there ... money.

Traditionally women's events are much cheaper than mixed events, and I've heard it time and time again from women where they want to move up (to mixed events) but they can't afford the entry fees for mixed events.

Think what you like, but as a woman I've seen it, even today men are on average paid more than women are for doing the exact same job. Perhaps it's because men tend to be more vocal when it comes to money than women do (I read that someplace, and I can't remember where), I really don't know. I myself have had to stand up for my rights and force an employer to pay me the same as the guy doing the SAME job right along side of me (I'm a Telecommunications technician). This is still happening as I had to encourage a friend of mine to go to HR and force the issue herself just last year when it happened to her at the company she was working at.

Hence why I think if we are to see more women in the ME, we need to make it affordable and one way that can be done is that Harrah's needs to adopt a corporate policy of in every Harrah's property that has a card room, to have affordable (IE: Under say $250 for the entry fee) weekly MIXED satellites for the WSOP ME (preferably on like a Saturday), much like their property, Ceasers Indiana does.

This will not only benefit men (as they too can satellite into the ME from their home casino), but also the women who want to move up to the next level.

JMHO, FWIW ...

P.S. As for Vanessa and Katja, they were indeed very good, as well as very experienced players, and I've played against Vanessa myself before. Again, very very good players, period.

[Moose]

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Think what you like, but as a woman I've seen it, even today men are on average paid more than women are for doing the exact same job. Perhaps it's because men tend to be more vocal when it comes to money than women do (I read that someplace, and I can't remember where), I really don't know. I myself have had to stand up for my rights and force an employer to pay me the same as the guy doing the SAME job right along side of me (I'm a Telecommunications technician). This is still happening as I had to encourage a friend of mine to go to HR and force the issue herself just last year when it happened to her at the company she was working at.

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The gap is very small, however. When you hear a large number being quoted by some women's groups, I will give you dollars to donuts that they are not normalizing the results in any way, shape or form. That is, they'll say a male "engineer" gets paid 30% more than a female "engineer" and not tell you that the male engineer works 29% more hours. Or male vs female "soldiers", when men are the ones going off getting shot.

As for cheaper satellites, I am all fine with that. I think the best way to attract new players of BOTH genders is with cheaper tournaments. Cheaper buy-ins, higher rakes and a "fun" angle. Have extra-strict rules against bad behavior in such events.

[supafrey]

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Are you saying they played well during the event and then badly at the final table because they were on TV? Not likely.

Of course I'm not talking about Katja and Vanessa who have both played in other events (you know, the ones where everyone can play) and been successfull. I think their only error was playing the final table the way they normally would and not recognizing that these women were going to play as few hands as possible and wait for others to bust. But it's hard for good players to sit back and do that so they kept mixing it up and unfortunately busted out.

A few years ago I took a surfing lesson and as I was walking down to the water, another woman was coming back from her lesson. I asked her if she had gotten up and she said "no, I didn't try". I remember thinking "what a wimp". She was in 5 feet of water! What was she afraid of? That's how I think about women that ONLY play in women's events and there are lots of them. What are they afraid of???? And why would they want to put limits on their tournament experience?

The argument is always that the women will start in the womens only events and then move on to others but few have done that here. There are still very few women playing in regular tournaments but the women's events sell out everytime.

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I was just saying that it might of been a factor, the TV aspect of it. I have heard of some guys who've froze up as well in that kind of situation, when they knew they were on TV.


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If it's the same effect on "guys" and "girls" then your entire point is moot. Your original reference to the women's FT was that their poor play was somehow MORE excusable because of their gender being affected by television - now you're saying guys feel it too. Either way, the point is entirely irrelevant - nobody cares about the reasoning behind people's poor plays, just the actions that come out of them. Save your excuses for people that give two [censored].

We're not being condescending, judgmental and critical towards you because of what's between your legs; It's just because you sound really, really stupid.

[CincyLady]

Supa, I was trying to be fair there (amount the money issues), plus, I said it would be great for women trying to goto the next level to use those satellites to get to the ME.

As for their play, I never said it was excusable, but sometimes just knowing the reason why helps explains the reasons behind it.

[okterrific]

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some of the comments made in this thread are incredibly offensive.

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Yeah kind of like having an "X" only WSOP event that awards a bracelet.

Have the event but make it a non bracelet event and same goes for seniors event. If its not an open event then there should not be a bracelet awarded.

End of thread.

[Moose]

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some of the comments made in this thread are incredibly offensive.

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Yeah kind of like having an "X" only WSOP event that awards a bracelet.

Have the event but make it a non bracelet event and same goes for seniors event. If its not an open event then there should not be a bracelet awarded.

End of thread.

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But.. but.. how else are you going to be able to market a female champion? Isn't that more important than obtuse principles like fair competition, a level playing field, and actual equality between men and women in one of the very few spheres it can be achieved?

[Injection]

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I can't decide either way whether the women's event should be axed, it depends what will bring more tardnits to the table..
On one hand, by cancelling it, there is the opportunity to force these dense broads directly to the mixed events for some ez money. See FT of WSOP women's event..
On the other hand, over time we may attract a greater number of these weaker players to our tables if they prefer, at first, to play in the skill-less field that is the women's event and move up once the other women start telling them they play too loose.

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i bet you think all black people commit crime and all southerners are stupid too.

also, the final table was filled with bad play not because they are women OBVIOUSLY, but because many of them have very little experience with tournament poker (or any poker for that matter). did all of you guys become good poker players overnight?

some of the comments made in this thread are incredibly offensive.

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Lol.. So since I think the vast majority of women poker players are weak, dead money, I'm all of a sudden racist too? Attacking one generalisation with another, that's pretty cute, sweetheart.
Incase you missed the FT, and everyone else's comments on how soft a women's field is (including your own..); I think my generalisation holds a bit more merit based on the play there et al., and from what I've seen of other women "poker" players.
Personally, I don't care if you guys have your own little nitfest amateur donkament, but awarding a bracelet makes a mockery of the real events where skill is actually involved. Long-term, it's probably more beneficial to keep the tournament and give the women a chance to learn the hand-rankings and such so that they will eventually take shots at the real tournaments and blind their cash off to us. Axing the event would probably be less +EV.

[fluorescenthippo]

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Let's work on this Vietnamese event. I FEEL IT WOULD BE A NGUYEN/NGUYEN SITUATION!

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nh

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im like a month late but this is superb

[grdred944]

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There's a simple solution to all of this. Do what Amarillo Slim did at the Super Bowl of poker.


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Diddling their kids while they're busy playing is not a viable solution.

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Coffee spitting funny. NH

[suzy89222]

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I can't decide either way whether the women's event should be axed, it depends what will bring more tardnits to the table..
On one hand, by cancelling it, there is the opportunity to force these dense broads directly to the mixed events for some ez money. See FT of WSOP women's event..
On the other hand, over time we may attract a greater number of these weaker players to our tables if they prefer, at first, to play in the skill-less field that is the women's event and move up once the other women start telling them they play too loose.

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am i really getting attacked because i said some of these comments were offensive??

and once again, I AM AGAINST LADIES ONLY TOURNAMENTS.