Focus on the Family [censored] Warning About the 6/8 IGREA Hearing

[RoundGuy]

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Are you saying that Christians should just lay down and not defend themselves from the attack of this changing world? If gays and lesbians can fight for their rights to be married, is it wrong for the church to fight to keep the right of having prayer in schools?

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We are in this world, not of this world. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's...etc.

Please show me how it is Biblical for a Christian to get involved in political (worldly) issues. It isn't. James Dobson is a disgrace to all true Christians, with his political agenda.

[Skallagrim]

To the poster who believed that Rev. Dobson has done more good for this country than any of us, I ask you to rethink things.

I beleive Dobson has done more harm to both religion and politics than just about anyone else in recent memory.

Mixing religion and politics invariably produces bad politics and worse religion. Dont believe me? Consider Iran.

Let me try and illustrate the point by way of a parable. Most of the christian-political types are upset about gay rights. They want laws making gay marriage illegal, and stopping gays from doing a number of things. They believe it is right to push this agenda politically. My reading of Jesus' trachings leads me to the opposite conclusion. I think Jesus would demand not mere tolerance of gays but their complete and total acceptance. Put aside the theological debate and assume for a minute I convince the majority of people I am right. Am I then entitled to have a law passed making it illegal to not admit gays ANYWHERE? In other words, it would be illegal for you to NOT admit them to your church AND you have to allow them to all positions of authority and admit them to all sacraments. You go to jail otherwise. If you respond by saying the state shouldnt legislate in this area of personal beliefs, how can you go on asking the state to legislate against others' personal beliefs based on your persona beliefs?

Abortion is another example - if the state has the legal authority to ban abortions, does it not then also have the right to MANDATE abortions (as in China)? Maybe the state shouldnt have the right to interfere in pregnancy at all, eh?

Is that not enough to convince you that there should always be seperation of church and state? Either the state legislates your religion or the state stays out of your religion. Seems an easy choice...

Our founding fathers got it right and Jesus would agree, I think.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's...."

If only Rev. Dobson were that good of a christian.

Skallagrim

[Landlord79]

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To the poster who believed that Rev. Dobson has done more good for this country than any of us, I ask you to rethink things.

I beleive Dobson has done more harm to both religion and politics than just about anyone else in recent memory.

Mixing religion and politics invariably produces bad politics and worse religion. Dont believe me? Consider Iran.

Let me try and illustrate the point by way of a parable. Most of the christian-political types are upset about gay rights. They want laws making gay marriage illegal, and stopping gays from doing a number of things. They believe it is right to push this agenda politically. My reading of Jesus' trachings leads me to the opposite conclusion. I think Jesus would demand not mere tolerance of gays but their complete and total acceptance. Put aside the theological debate and assume for a minute I convince the majority of people I am right. Am I then entitled to have a law passed making it illegal to not admit gays ANYWHERE? In other words, it would be illegal for you to NOT admit them to your church AND you have to allow them to all positions of authority and admit them to all sacraments. You go to jail otherwise. If you respond by saying the state shouldnt legislate in this area of personal beliefs, how can you go on asking the state to legislate against others' personal beliefs based on your persona beliefs?

Abortion is another example - if the state has the legal authority to ban abortions, does it not then also have the right to MANDATE abortions (as in China)? Maybe the state shouldnt have the right to interfere in pregnancy at all, eh?

Is that not enough to convince you that there should always be seperation of church and state? Either the state legislates your religion or the state stays out of your religion. Seems an easy choice...

Our founding fathers got it right and Jesus would agree, I think.
<font color="blue"> "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's...."
</font>

If only Rev. Dobson were that good of a christian.

Skallagrim

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I don't have time to respond to this, but you have completely missed the boat. This is referring to taxes and respect as an authority.

Separation of church and state works to protect religion, much like a corporation protects it's owners. The Founding Fathers were mostly Christian and wanted their Christian rights protected from the government. It was explained better above by someone else.

I may not be a sinless man, but I would invite you to walk a day w/ me and see the life that I live if you think that all Christians are hypocrites.

The basic law of the Bible is the law of love. God is forgiving and loving, but He is also Holy. I won't open that up to people who have never pondered and meditated on pure holiness, but if Christians don't stand up for their rights, then soon all their rights will be taken from them, just like anyone else who sits idly by.

And also, Jesus would love all gays w/o loving their actions. He takes us as we are, but doesn't expect us to stay the same. The Old and New Testament both point to homosexuality as sin, God, being holy, destroyed Sodom and Gamora because of this sin. Anyone Christian who says differently doesn't believe that ALL of God's word is true and therefore is not a true Christian, but a hypocrit, living a lie.

I have many friends who are unsaved and living in sin, I don't judge them and I accept them as they are, but like God, I hope for the salvation of their souls and the repentance of their sins.

May God bless you, I'm going home.

[RoundGuy]

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The Founding Fathers were mostly Christian and wanted their Christian rights protected from the government.

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Source please. Preferably from the Founding Fathers themselves.

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I may not be a sinless man, but I would invite you to walk a day w/ me and see the life that I live if you think that all Christias are hypocrites.

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All Christians are hypocrites. It's a matter of to what degree.

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Anyone Christian who says differently doesn't believe that ALL of God's word is true and therefore is not a true Christian, but a hypocrit, living a lie.

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I wouldn't open this can of worms, if I were you. Would you like me to point out about a hundred things in the Old and New Testament that Christians no longer believe are true? Are you really a true Christian then? Or do you just pick and choose what to believe...

[Richas]

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Please show me how it is Biblical for a Christian to get involved in political (worldly) issues. It isn't. James Dobson is a disgrace to all true Christians, with his political agenda.

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Not being religious I feel like I'm intruding here especially as I am against what Dobson says most of the time but the incident with the money lenders, or the stoning of the adulteress, could be used as examples in faour of religious political activism (not that I welcome it myself mind).

[RoundGuy]

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Please show me how it is Biblical for a Christian to get involved in political (worldly) issues. It isn't. James Dobson is a disgrace to all true Christians, with his political agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not being religious I feel like I'm intruding here especially as I am against what Dobson says most of the time but the incident with the money lenders, or the stoning of the adulteress, could be used as examples in faour of religious political activism (not that I welcome it myself mind).

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In these cases, Jesus was confronting the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus never confronted the Romans (the government) as this was not his concern -- and nor should it be the concern of any true Christian. The world is the world, and is not our concern (other than to spread the gospel in love). Evil resides in the church -- that is where evil is to be fought.