Bots and the future of online poker

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
Disjunction,

How much experience do you really have with a specifically k82r board. My quick (possibly wrong) calc shows that flop coming up 171 times every 10^6 hands.

There's just no way you will have more experience than a bot with a gigantic database.

That said, its not really an easy task because popular lines change with times so the bot's sample size is never gonna be that huge either (though obv bigger than a human's).


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, your last point is exactly what I am saying. I can not have enough of a sample, and neither does the bot. But I have common sense, when I find myself in uncharted waters I can search through my head and select the most applicable rule out of the thousands of poker rules in my head. I combine the rule with quick EV calculations.

The bot, however, can not pick the right rule. It may pick some rule, and perform an EV calc based on it, but it won't be right. Its human opponent will instantly pick out what rule it violated, and will exploit it.

This all assumes poker is a "large" problem. If it is a large problem, the bots are dead.

[HOWMANY]

The only disadvantage bots have that I can think of is that they can't (I don't think) discern when their opponent is on tilt. In every other aspect they are superior to humans, ie not tilting, estimating/weighting hand ranges and mixing up play randomly.

[talentdeficit]

the math and theory required to program an optimal NL poker bot is already complete. the only thing holding back the implementation is motivation and computing resources. resources may not even be a limiting factor anymore with distributed systems like erlang and stackless making it possible to use commodity hardware to get around the computational complexity of the problem.

motivation is lacking, however. the reality is there's a ton of risk in relation to the reward available.

[ggbman]

Bots are obviously not good for the games, and it would be better if this was 2 years ago and there were none around. That said, those of you who are going by the "Bots pay more rake than anyone theory so sites will happily let them run rampant" are waaaay for off. As soon as the problem becomes prevelant enough to affect a player base signicantly, I can see many sight fighting for customers by have the best bot detection technology, it could be a huge selling point. Also FWIW, there has already been at least one site where bots made up a huge portion of the player base and affected the community drastically. The vaaaaaaaast majority, if not all of those bots have been detected and banned. If this becomes a big enough issue, the sites will make sure to protect their reputations more than is neccesary today.

[Victor]

". Also FWIW, there has already been at least one site where bots made up a huge portion of the player base and affected the community drastically. The vaaaaaaaast majority, if not all of those bots have been detected and banned. If this becomes a big enough issue, the sites will make sure to protect their reputations more than is neccesary today. "

can you give some more details? site, stakes, games etc. pm i necessary.

[danzasmack]

pretty sure it's WPX

[MarkD]

i see no reason for the secrecy surrounding what ggbman alludes to. I am also quite curious and if necessary would love a PM but still see no reason why this info shouldn't be public if a few people already know it.

[Borys313]

Maybe i am naive but humans handle situatuations with incomplete information alot better then computers. And making generall asumptions based on few examples is also easier for us then machines. If you show 10 hands played by someone to an average player he could probably get alot more reads and insight based on this very few examples then any bot can.

No one plays backgammon/chess for money because its to easy to find out who has an edge, and its pointless to play against someone far better then you. O and you dont need to play backgammon for money to make it fun.

Backgammon, chess or checkers have been solved long time ago but there is always one corect solution for this games, and there are very easy to describe with numbers, algorythms etc.

Japan probably has one of the best programers in the world, still they cant solve they national game GO. They cant even make a bot that would beat above average club players not to mention world elite.

[killsadie]

my bot will be able to beat other bots.

[Paragon]

There is a trivial way to get around bot detection if you drop the automation. Use a second computer, manually input the hand action, then follow the on screen instructions.