Workout Questions

[Rearden]

imo "eating healthy" and "vegan diet" arent exactly the same thing.

If youre interested in gaining muscle mass you're going to need to up the protein. Lean/Lowfat animal products are great for this. Our bodies can very easily tolerate (and depending on who you talk to demand) diets where lean meat is factored in. By being a vegan or even vegetarian you lose a lot of those benefits (protein especially but other nutrients can also be missing). It is possible to be a vegetarian and consume a balanced diet without serious gaps, but it would require some supplementation and likely a complicated diet with a large variety of foodstuffs. Additionally I would like you to note that many vegetable proteins arent as useful when compared to other protein sources; also some sources like soy may well negatively impact your own natural testosterone levels.

Human beings are omnivores; I will never understand why it is considered fashionable or healthy to function otherwise.

You will have an extremely difficult time gaining lean mass and losing weight without keeping the above in mind. Also, you have not provided much information as to the total calories consumed in your diet (which matters right along with the source of those calories). And finally, checking the scales 5 times a day and worrying about suddenly becoming too bulky.... bad. Weight loss is about long term stable results, not water weight loss, not in day weight fluctuations, not yo yo dieting, but rather establishing a healthy eating and exercise system that works best for your body with respect to your goals. As for "not wanting to look like a bodybuilder"... ok... most guys in a gym or on this forum do not want to look like 350+lbs shaved and oiled up freaks. As per your height, weight, and relative inexperience you seem on track to be "skinny fat" not at all overweight but also with no definable muscle mass. Even hitting the weights hard and resting/eating properly it will take time before you even become reasonably muscular; at which point you can further adjust your routine to maintain that physique or increase muscle mass further down the road as you like.

My big question is... in the face of all of this... why Vegan?

OP, I respect your desire to improve your body and get fit. I'm only trying to suggest that your diet plan and way of thinking are not the best ways to get to where you want to go.

[arbuthnot]

Dude,

He's not vegan. He said he was vegetarian. There's a big difference.

Trust me. I've been ovo-lacto vegetarian for +10 years. You can get plenty of calories. Getting the right calories is the hard part. Whey protein powders and flax oils are going to help in that department.

If you don't think vegetarians can get ripped, check out this thread: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=790345

and I doubt OP event wants to get that toned.

[The Lipo Fund]

Rearden, before I address your post, I just want to ask you if your name is in reference to Atlas Shrugged?


Now to answer your question, the vegan/vegetarian thing is to show myself I have control. By doing this I improve my internal self-image which was damaged maybe beyond repair, after 15 years of obesity. Self-pride is more important to me than how others view me. So I want to be able to maintain self-respect, while reflecting that externally at the same time, by gaining some muscle mass.

As far as my diet goes, I eat no more than 2000 calories a day. My breakfast consists of a fruit, usually a banana or citrus product, since I live in Florida, generally an orange or a grape. During school, my lunch was typically a peanut butter sandwich, and for a week or so, I had some of those Simply Asia microwaveable lunches. Dinner is generally a pasta or rice, coupled with vegetables. I am sure to eat some kind of bean, atleast 3 times a week. I take a few vitamins, mostly protein/calcium supplements. But one of them is a multivitamin. I have also incorporated seaweed into my doet, due to its high concentration of protein. I do not really eat soy, or any kind of meat substitute. I think the whole idea is silly for someone like me. I am making a voluntary choice not to eat meat, and to chomp down on a boca burger, or eat a piece of soysage, would be pointless. I have had 3 standard 6 month checkups with my doctor since I have become a vegetarian. My health is fine according to him. I realize the importance of maintaining a healthy diet, and the dangers of doing so while abstaining from eating meat. I did my research prior to making the decision, so I'm not just one of those 13 year old girls who sees a PETA video, and thinks it's noble to not eat beef. As far as going vegan goes, it would not be a huge change for me, my diet doesn't contain many dairy products. I never drank milk growing up, I have a strong distaste for chocolate and many other sweets, I seldom use cheese, and I never really used butter/oils on anything before in my life.

As for your statement that I am on track to be skinny fat, this is exactly the kind of thing I am looking to avoid. I would not even being average as far as muscle mass is concerned. When you say that it will take time to build any kind of muscle, what kind of time frame are you referring to?

Thank you very much for your input


And to the person who asked me why the closest gym was so far away. I went to an IB school (it's a special program designed for smarter kids with college in mind) and it was 45 minutes away. To make this drive would both be long and costly. There is a highschool in my town, about 5 minutes away, but I am unfamiliar with anyone there. But I could call and ask, the worst they could say is "no".

[Rearden]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude,

He's not vegan. He said he was vegetarian. There's a big difference.

Trust me. I've been ovo-lacto vegetarian for +10 years. You can get plenty of calories. Getting the right calories is the hard part. Whey protein powders and flax oils are going to help in that department.

If you don't think vegetarians can get ripped, check out this thread: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=790345

and I doubt OP event wants to get that toned.

[/ QUOTE ]

" I eat healthy, and will most likely switch to a vegan diet sometime before the end of the summer."
---OP's post... reading... its a great thing.

arbuthnot,

I listed in my post some of the issues related (certainly not all) to being Vegan and some forms of vegetarianism in general. If you would like to dispute any of those thats just fine. I also do acknowledge that though it is certainly possible to get toned while on such a diet some evidence and simply numbers of adherents to an omnivorious diet (almost all athletes, etc. coupled with the somewhat dubious personal anecdote in that most vegetarians I know are "skinny fat") are there in favor of a balanced and total diet. I, and perhaps other vicious meat eaters in the forum, would be more than willing to debate the suggestion that meat and animal products in general form an easy, healthy, and in some cases needed part of a person's diet.

[guids]

OP,

I was in a similar situation as you, I changed at 17is though, not 15. You are setting yourself up for failure by thinking like this. dont become a vegetarian please. the real test of wehther you can exercise self control, is if you can eat what you like in moderation. Eat meat, lift heavy, and find a good diet you can stick too. Sticking to a diet perfectly, whether it be to gain or lose weight, and adjusting your diet to suit your goals takes about 1000x more self control than being a vegetarian. You are woefully ignorant imo, and setting yourself up for failure.

[Rearden]

The Lipo Fund,

In regards to my name: I needed a random name for 2p2 so I looked at my bookshelf and thought "I bet no one took that yet". I have read and enjoyed the book.

I understand what you mean in regards to self image and a sense of control. Coming down in weight and wanting to retain that positive is most certainly reasonable. I would however question the leap in logic youre making.... would it not also be possible to show a great deal of control by simply following a diet that involves meat and is both very healthy and very conducive to your lifestyle goals? I do very much respect your commitment but I think others may echo my thoughts in that getting in shape and improving ones quality of life while taking dedication does not require any focus on eliminating lean animal sources of protein.

I am glad you mentioned your use of seaweed and beans as protein sources in your diet. I do not know the extent of your outside supplementation (you mentioned protein supps/calcium). With respect to the protein contained in seaweed/plant sources I can tell you that it is not termed "complete" that often these proteins are lacking in amino acids that are in demand in the body (especially as a result of the stress of lifting). Animal sources (chicken, beef, milk products to some degree) are again not only excellent sources of protein but also excellent sources of very high quality protein. Feel free to research this matter further (on general nutrition websites, I would not put it beyond any group of people, including vegetarians to selectively present one side of an arguement). To maintain lean body mass you need protein, to gain lean body mass you need even more significant ammounts of protein.

I very much respect your dedication to being healthy in general; I just think your logic in some areas is weak. Your choices in weighing yourself several times a day, reasons for going Vegan, choice to focus on strict mass loss as opposed to focusing on fat loss, etc. As I think you now realize, assuming equal height, there can be a significant difference between a guy who weighs 180lbs and has significant muscle and a guy who does not. Mass is not the enemy, fat is... changing a number on the scale is not a big deal, changing your body's overall composition is.

With respect to lifting... any answer at this point won't be too terribly accurate. Your initial progress depends heavily on your program, dedication to lifting, diet, etc. These factors when close to optimal can lead to astounding changes long term (years) and most certainly notable changes in the short term (months). If you're eating right and lifting properly noticing some degree of change will not take that long. The focus then becomes what your long term goals are with respect to health and aesthetics; again with respect to all of these aspects proper diet and intelligent weight training can be a huge help. Going by your intitial post and comments I think not touching a scale for a long long while would do you some good. You may feel/look "right" at the weight you are currently just with fat lost and muscle gained, likewise you may choose a weight that for you feels great but for your scale seems daunting; it would be a huge negative to focus on the number here rather than the issue of quality in size and composition.

Once you find a stable gym, or even pick up a 100lb barbell set at you local sport goods store for like $40 you can find a huge variety of workouts on t-nation.com or in books like ripptoe's starting strength that stress heavy full body work to make significant changes in appearance and ability.

You seem very dedicated to this conceptually but approaching the problem incorrectly will only lead to a lack of results. Please continue posting any questions or comments you have with regards to proper diet and lifting.

[avfletch]

If you don't have a bench then I highly recommend this work out.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hugo22.htm

You can do 10 out of 12 exercises with just a pair of dumbells. It's been an excellent starting point for me since I started with just dumbells and no bench or spotter. I have a bench now which makes it easier but it's definitely not vital.

[theblackkeys]

Lipo,
Here's a thread on the Paleo lithic Diet.

You seem like you want a challenge in your diet for self-image purposes, check this one out if you are reconsidering your vegetarian stance.

Also, others in this forum have recommended this brand of adjustable dumbells:
http://powerblock.com/