One day I will learn how to play 10/20 LO8

[hoppscot22]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising this hand preflop is terrible in this spot.


[/ QUOTE ]

it is definitely not terrible

[1MoreFish4U]

There are so many better cards to play - I would seldom get involved in a pot with these cards. You have to mix things up - so fine as a one shot, but I have a feeling this is a normal strategy for some of the responders here.

Usually, this is a fold p/f - after that, your chances of losing more money got worse on the flop.

[SweetLuckyMe]

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many better cards to play - I would seldom get involved in a pot with these cards. You have to mix things up - so fine as a one shot, but I have a feeling this is a normal strategy for some of the responders here.

Usually, this is a fold p/f - after that, your chances of losing more money got worse on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ] Run that hand against a couple of typical hands in an equity simulation. Run it heads up against A234, A3xx and some other hand that you'd consider raising there with. I think you'll be surprised. This hand actually does well short - the typical hands everyone loves A3xx etc. do well multi-way, but most of them not so well as this one short.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
Run that hand against a couple of typical hands in an equity simulation. Run it heads up against A234, A3xx and some other hand that you'd consider raising there with. I think you'll be surprised. This hand actually does well short - the typical hands everyone loves A3xx etc. do well multi-way, but most of them not so well as this one short.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure it does well hot/cold in simulation but the game isn't played in simulation mode. All simulation hands are overvalued because they include results where the person playing the hand wouldn't have continued. For example you raise and BB calls and the flop is A37r and he has 234J vs. your KKT9. A good part of your "suprisingly well" equity comes from situations like this where in the simulation world KK9T makes it to showdown (and wins) but in the real world this hand isn't making it to showdown in many spots where it would have won.

[SweetLuckyMe]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure it does well hot/cold in simulation but the game isn't played in simulation mode. All simulation hands are overvalued because they include results where the person playing the hand wouldn't have continued. For example you raise and BB calls and the flop is A37r and he has 234J vs. your KKT9. A good part of your "suprisingly well" equity comes from situations like this where in the simulation world KK9T makes it to showdown (and wins) but in the real world this hand isn't making it to showdown in many spots where it would have won.

[/ QUOTE ] Agreed - however, this hand + position has good value against players who are prone to folding without a favorable flop fit. (in fact, since hands run so close in value, just about any hand plays well against this sort of op) I guess what I'm suggesting is that against all but the pure calling stations just about any reasonable hand plus position should be considered - ruling out a hand in the right situation, because it's not an A2 or A3 hand isn't always the strongest play.

[lucid75]

When you raise w/ this hand preflop, you need to hit a board that fits in very well w/ your hand. Say, generally paint, maybe a spade or two. Paired board isn't horrible either. This flop is maybe one of the worst case scenarios. You have to dodge low and have one pair hold up for potentially half. The safe cards that can come for you that MIGHT make it possible to card are slim. while the cards that scare the [censored] out of you are many, low cards, straightening low cards, a paired low card. Calling on the flop is only reserved for when you have a realllllllllllllllllllly good read on this guy, and then you have to be Neo and dodge bullets for half.